Trump does something I approve of

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #1
    He fired Michael G. Flynn (son of his nominated National Security Advisor, Gen. Michael T. Flynn) for extensive use of Twitter to spread "fake news' - including the malicious story that a Washington pizza restaurant (Comet Ping Pong) was the center of a Democratic child-sex ring - from his transition team.

    (The Comet Ping Pong story, which reached somewhat of a climax with the arrest of a N. Carolina man who'd gone there with several firearms, is sort of microcosm of the sort of malicious rumors that permeated the campaign.)

    Apparently, Trump must have realized that Flynn junior was too malignant to keep around. Both he and the Senior Flynn had extensive histories of spreading "fake news", and sent Twitter messages that were clearly Islamophobic.

    Small steps. But we've a long, long way to go.

    The canceling of the next generation of Air Force one aircraft, while not a done deal, needs a lot more analysis and discussion. Saving money is well and good, but the Secret Service and National Security Council have a right to weigh in on the matter. If they wait around till the existing planes are worn out, its not like you can buy a new one on eBay.
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #2
    Of course trump sees no problem with his extensive use of twitter or his spreading of fake news.

    It's good to be the king.
     
  3. Cox Orange, Dec 6, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #3
    I was surprised, this hasn't been discussed here on the forum.

    People here (but actually everywhere) should more look at mechanisms and what some ("liberal") users mean, when they talk about propaganda botnets, filter bubles and that you should watch public news sources that have a press codex they follow when presenting news (and when with opinion piece, show both sides of how can look at a topic). In contrast to private news channels. I don't even take offense in that they only show their onesided view on one topic (that can happen with channels that have a press/ethic codex, too), but I take offense in when they knowingly make up stories just to fullfill the preexistant expectation of their viewers (i.e. looking to tell them what they WANT to hear and this with made up stories).
    In Germany we have a general press codex (I know all will yell fashism/dictatorship now), that forbids to just claim stuff, stuff like e.g. Obama wasn't born in the US and repeat that, when you do it to get a certain reaction from your viewers, when you KNOW there is a birth certificate and you already checked that. It can even have legal consequences.

    There is a difference between seeing things differently and making up news - and there is a difference between free speech and lying*. I have the feeling a lot of people forget that these days.

    *lying = ok, I admit the term lying is problematic here, if the person has his own perception of reality and believes it.
     
  4. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    #4
    I think his continued use of twitter is his way of giving the press a stiff middle finger in terms of getting things out and in circulation without them. Think about it, this story is dominating every news broadcast and message forum discussion out there just like most of what he spews. The common theme continues to be that he doesn't need the press/media to get anything he wants to tip the charts of conversation.

    All the talk going on is about his single tweet. Most everything around those stories continues to be about him and he loves that. Also, there's actually very little information out there about this topic that has come directly from him. It's eveyone elses thoughts, comments and opinions. Ironically everyone else is creating the fake news.
     
  5. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #5
    Yes. Me too. But I've probably exceeded my allowable limits of raising serious concerns about the incoming Trump administration.

    The Comet Ping Pong story raises an interesting question:

    Is it acceptable for a political campaign to deliberately use disinformation as a tactic?

    There is little doubt that disinformation is a legitimate tactic in military combat. History is replete with such stories: From the mythological Trojan Horse, to the (somewhat grisly) Operation Mincemeat, where British intelligence artfully placed a corpse of a man purported to be a British army officer, carrying documents that suggested an Allied military attack far removed from the actual target.

    I will say I find it somewhat disturbing that senior people within the Trump campaign deliberately used false stories to advance their cause. The false information, in this instance, was not aimed at hostile enemy forces - but against the citizens and voters of the United States. The facts and circumstances of the Comet Ping Pong story are hard to defend: The allegations were simultaneously so vile, and so incredible, as to defy belief.

    And yet General Michael Flynn, supposedly one of the most able military intelligence officers of his generation, saw little problem disseminating them to his fellow citizens without qualms, and without question.

    And this filthy maggot will soon be advising President Trump on the most critical aspects of our nation's national security.

    This will not end well.
     
  6. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #6
    I'm hoping the Senate will take the advise part of advise and consent more to heart than it generally feels inclined to do when considering cabinet nominations. On more than a few of Mr. Trump's indicated nominations so far.
     
  7. Populism, Dec 6, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016

    Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    #7
    What other things has Trump done that you - @vrDrew - approve of?

    Cuz we been askin'. About your thoughts.
     
  8. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #8
    Well he did not fire daddy who was spreading the fudd too like father like son like president.
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #9
    What else is politics other than spinning information to suit your needs or lead others to conclusions.

    Think about how NBC(?) edited the Trayvon Martin shooting 911 tapes to change the content of the conversation.
     
  10. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #10
    That has to be the weakest of false equivalences I've seen in some time.

    To begin with, NBC News wasn't running for office. And, whatever else you may take away from the story, Trayvon Martin was actually shot and killed by George Zimmerman. In pretty much any other country on earth Zimmerman would be in prison for murder.

    The rationalization and "normalizing" of such disgusting and outrageous behavior as the deliberate spreading of patently untrue stories - by otherwise sensible and decent people such as yourself (the rationalizing, not the untrue stories) - is one reason we now have an ignorant, narcissist, psychopath about to take up residence in the White House.

    No: The way towards good is through truth. The path towards evil, to suffering and ruin, runs through a thicket of lies.
     
  11. Arran, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016

    Arran macrumors 601

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #11
    Flynn Jr's firing was overdue.

    It's good to see some of the hangers-on finally getting their snouts rapped and shoved away from the trough.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 7, 2016 ---
    There's a huge difference between spinning and just making stuff up: One requires skill and the other doesn't.

    I know I'm setting the bar really low here (politics, enough said) but I'd rather employ someone who can demonstrate some skill. Any skill - even the wrong one - is preferable. At least they demonstrate some awareness of their surroundings and the need to act (semi) intelligently if they want to be taken seriously.

    Again, low bar. But that's where we are now.
     
  12. A.Goldberg, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #12
    Excuse me, but where did I justify or rationalize the appropriateness of spread disinformation? Honestly Vr you have been increasingly unable to discern what is partisan talk and what is not. I truly believe you're becoming obsessed with Trump in a very unhealthy way. Everything is black and white, left vs right. The world is not black and white. Respectfully, it's time to get a grip.

    My point was that OUR media- both left and right spreads a tremendous amount of disinformation. To rationalize that this is something new is absurd.

    Yes, Trayvon Martin was killed by George Zimmerman. Regardless of the laws in place and outcome of the trial, which have nothing to do with my comments, rearranging and editing the audio and therefore the content is highly unethical. But youre saying here tactics like this don't matter because you already knew the outcome of this case the day it aired? Wow.

    It is completely unacceptable for you to make such wildly ridiculous accusations when, by the sound of it, bad journalism is fine so long as it fits your agenda. This is one thing very wrong with our country and probably a contributing factor as to why someone like Trump is our President in the first place.
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #13
    Self defence is allowable in almost every jurisdiction. If a jury anywhere found it was self defence, I don't see why Zimmerman would be in jail.
     
  14. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #14
    Come on, @A.Goldberg you know perfectly well that - in a functioning democracy, or even, at a pinch, a dysfunctional democracy, - that politics is about far more than that.
     
  15. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Location:
    California
    #15
    Maybe everything Trump does you approve of, you just don't know it yet.

    Remember, Trump's here to Make America Great Again... So, if you want to Make America Great Again, then you should agree with what Trump does.

    It's looking more and more like you're a REAL Trump fan...

    Let me be the first to welcome you aboard the Trump Train. Grab a seat and <wait for it, wait for it> Enjoy the ride.

    TrumpTrain.jpeg

    I had a feeling you'd come around.
     
  16. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #16
    Yes, but it's certainly a large component of contemporary politics. I'd have to assume to an increasing amount with television, 24/7 cable news, the internet, and now social media. It's ridiculous the media and our politicians get away with spinning situations into things that are simply not reality. The amount of misrepresented information is astounding. It happens with the right, the left, and even non-political matters.
     
  17. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #17
    If that's a euphemism for Trumps penis I hope that's a toy train.
     
  18. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Location:
    California
    #18
    If that's the way you 'enjoy the ride' then more power to you.
     
  19. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #19
    So far, the majority of his appointments look far better than those of this past regime. Not all, but the majority. But I'm nervous about money-people from the Bankster community.

    Let's hope that Mattis can get rid of the social-experiment nonsense in our military.

    Sec/State's going to be critical. Crossed fingers, there. Hopefully, no more incompetents. We don't need any more who struggle with the rudiments of tic-tac-toe when competing leaders are masters at chess.
     
  20. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #20
    I think you are making the error of assuming that the rest of the world completely copies and effortlessly reflects how the United States conducts politics. It doesn't.

    Candidly, - and I have worked on political matters - democratisation, as well as what we call 'capacity building' - elections, analysis - in quite a number of countries across two continents - (but not, as it happens, the US), I think your understanding of what constitutes 'politics' is a bit limited.

    Marketing (in other words, 'spin') is only one part of it; to confuse it for the whole is to miss the bigger picture.

    And yes, the electorate, and the media (including social media), have a duty to inform themselves as to what is going on.
     
  21. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #21
    The spreading of fake stories and rumours is right out of Nixon's playbook. It shouldn't have taken so long to eschew it.
     
  22. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #22
    Distasteful (and probably illegal) as much of Nixon's "dirty tricks" campaign was, it was at least based on facts (for instance information gleaned from opponents income tax returns, domestic surveillance, etc.) People concerned about Nixonian dirty tricks merely had to behave honestly (ie. pay their income taxes, refrain from visiting prostitutes) to avoid a scandal.

    The "Fake News" epidemic is - if anything - far more damaging and dangerous.

    How do you possibly persuade people that you aren't running a child-sex ring out of Washington pizzeria? If the Washington, DC police issue a statement that you aren't - they are part of the coverup. If the Washington Post and the New York Times dismiss the story as a hoax, well they are just part of the evil liberal media elite.

    Trump and his national security adviser are actively using "fake news" - which cannot possibly be refuted in the minds of millions of poeple - to seize power and forward their agenda.
     
  23. 5684697 Suspended

    5684697

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    #23
    Where was your outrage after Benghazi, where your favorite SecState crested a narrative of fake news about a video to cover her arse after deciding to sacrifice the ambassador? Cost her the election.

    What a riot. You aren't going to make it through the Trump Adminstration. He's about to blow up every bloated, cushy liberal racket in gold plated DC.
     
  24. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #24
    Fake, erroneous, BS "news"? I've seen more from the mainstream media and from the government, this century, that all-in-all make Alex Jones seem rational.

    Back in the 1980s and 1990s I regularly watched the Sunday morning talking heads on TV. I gave up. Way too far away from reality when they began yapping about causes and meanings of events. My pet maggot gagged.

    What was patently obvious to me, these last couple of years, was the increase in media negativism against anybody not in accord with liberalism. Anything mildly foolish by a Republican caused page-one headlines. Equally foolish things by Democrats received little if any coverage--or was spun as somehow having been appropriate.

    I note that the Washington press corps has always been approximately 85% registered Democrat. Neither the WaPo nor the NYT have ever been hotbeds of conservative thought.

    Some of us recall statements and actions by Mrs. Clinton as First Lady, Senator and Sec/State. Much of it was 180 degrees from campaign noise as she sought election. So who's fake?

    Heh. If you want fake on a regular basis, follow the pronunciamentos from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. :) For foolish blarney, follow Yellen and Draghi.
     
  25. vrDrew, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016

    vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #25
    It would be too much, I assume, to ask for some credible examples of this.

    I'm going to guess you probably aren't going to bring up the bold assertion on the part of the Bush Administration that Iraq was secretly building weapons of mass destruction.

    That isn't to say that sometimes the mainstream media get's things wrong. In any profession of tens of thousands of people, there will be the odd Jayson Blair.

    But such (incredibly rare) anomalies aside: The fact remains that virtually all the stories presented in the mainstream media are based on a solid foundation of reliable evidence and truth. The mainstream media simply does not fabricate false stories out of whole cloth.

    And Labor Statistics are, almost by definition, based upon verifiable facts: The Government receives bi-monthly payroll tax data that lets them know - with a fairly high degree of accuracy - how many people are legally employed in this country. Likewise, they know how many individuals are receiving, or have applied for, unemployment compensation. They don't pretend to report on the status of those working outside the legal economy, nor on those who have abandoned a search for employment.
     

Share This Page