Trump-Giuliani throw Cohen under the bus

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Solomani, May 13, 2018.

  1. Solomani, May 13, 2018
    Last edited: May 13, 2018

    Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #1
    Trump has instructed Giuliani to throw Michael Cohen under the bus. And leave skid marks on Cohen's face.

    Throwing Cohen under the bus is confirmed by three networks: CNN, Fox News, and Bloomberg, article links below. Eventually, one incredibly stupid scapegoat was needed to take the blame for many of Donald's misdeeds. And that goat seems to be Michael Cohen.


    Giuliani says Trump 'had no knowledge' of Cohen's corporate clients

    Giuliani Says Trump Was ‘Unaware’ of Cohen’s Consulting Income

    Giuliani: Cohen might have paid other women for Trump 'if necessary'



    MichaelCohen.jpg
    Hey Mike. Grab a pair of suitcases. You're gonna be in prison for a long long time.
     
  2. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #2
    Only thing Cohen can do now

    [​IMG]


    Que the Trumpernauts attack
     
  3. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    #3
    I'm going to defer my celebration until we see what happens. It's very possible that Cohen's and Trump's relationship is such that Cohen fully trusts Trump to pardon him for anything that may arise. I'm sure Cohen's job description includes taking crap for the boss if needed.
     
  4. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #4

    Unless Cohen is charged at the state level in which case the President can't pardon him. Presidents can only pardon Federal crimes.
     
  5. Solomani thread starter macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #5
    If the prosecution was smart, they would offer Cohen amnesty…. IF he testifies against POTUS and then spills all the dirt on his backstabbing boss. From Russian financial ties to Stormy weather, and everything in between. That would be fun.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Except for one thing: Michael Cohen didn't know that Trump was going to have that power when he paid off Stormy Daniels. There was, as the pollsters gladly told us, a 93% chance Hillary Clinton was going to win the Presidency back when Cohen drafted the nondisclosure agreement and cut the check.

    The problem for Trump is this: Why did Cohen use the same shell company (Essential Consultants) to buy Ms. Clifford's silence - a task that seemed only to benefit Donald Trump - as he used to shakedown corporate clients, purportedly only to benefit Michael Cohen?

    For a lawyer like Cohen, creating a "shell company" is a piece of cake. Cohen could probably create a half-dozen shell companies before lunchtime. It seems a very sloppy practice indeed to use the same one to serve the interests of different clients.

    It certainly could be the case that Michael Cohen was just a naked opportunist. A guy who traded on his closeness to Donald Trump to cash in a few massive corporate "consulting" checks from anyone with business interests that might benefit from the President's ear.

    But Cohen (and ultimately the Trump people) are going to have to come up with a plausible explanation for why Essential Consultants went from being a vehicle to keep ensure marital bliss in the Donald Trump household to a funnel to scoop up the tasty corporate largesse of everyone from ATT to a murky Russian oligarch.
     
  7. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Right, but Cohen knew that Trump would either have the power to pardon or be a failed candidate who would not come under as much scrutiny as the president. And he did not have to make his to-flip-or-not-to-flip decision before the election, he needs to make it now when he has more knowledge of his situation.

    Don’t get me wrong though, you are right in that Cohen has a lot of explaining to do. We just don’t know yet how it will pan out, even though we are off to a good start and I love it as much as Don Jr loves a sneaky meeting with the Russian government.
     
  8. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #8
    You know what I'm struck by, in this situation and just about everything connected to Trump's White House and Presidency? The utter sloppiness, incompetence, and outright stupidity of pretty much everyone involved.

    I honestly don't know what is worse: A Presidency surrounded by incompetence. Or one surrounded by malevolence.

    It's bad enough Trump had a series of unpleasant extramarital affairs. That tells you a lot about his character and basic human decency. But the fact that he shoved off the clean-up work to a shyster like Michael Cohen tells you a lot more about his management style. He obviously values loyalty (or in Cohen's case a dog-like obsequiousness) over skill, discretion, and efficiency. Did it not occur to Trump that a guy like Cohen - doing shady taxicab deals with sleazy Russian emigres and gangsters - might fall foul of a criminal investigation? Sure, it might have cost Trump twenty or thirty thousand bucks to have a white-shoe New York or Beverly Hills firm handle the job. But Cravath Swaine & Moore isn't very likely to get raided by the FBI.

    And its this shortsightedness, this inability to pick competence over loyalty, that worries me most about Trump's administration. When you are dealing with pros in the game of international power politics, you'd better have some pretty skilled people mapping out strategy and calculating the odds. Maybe Trump figures that the professionals working at the CIA and DoD can bail him out of any looming disaster.

    But that ought to be a pretty alarming prospect for both Americans and the rest of the world.
     
  9. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #9
    If he'd bothered to listen to what those guys had to say, and if he could have got past his vindictiveness towards Obama, Trump would not have withdrawn unilaterally from the JCPOA.
    --- Post Merged, May 13, 2018 ---
    It will be fun if Cohen taped anything.
     
  10. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #10
    I can't believe that anyone who worked for Trump didn't tape every conversation they had with him
     
  11. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    If not the first time, then anything thereafter for sure. Amazing that small contractors would even try to do business with him. They must have heard tales of his stiffing them on payment.

    I'm more intrigued by these corporate approaches Cohen was taking after Trump was elected though, wondering if Trump even knew about them. If he didn't then he'd be inclined to throw Cohen under the bus just in realizing he was being used by Cohen to get "free money" from those companies.

    There's not much point in Cohen being loyal to Trump now, is there? He's more likely to do time for his own sidelines than Trump is for anything related to Cohen. It's not like Trump tends to think the loyalty street runs both ways anyway, and apparently it doesn't bother Trump's base if there were payouts to women by Cohen on Trump's behalf. So if there were more women, so what? Unless some of the money came from Russians. Then I suppose it could be argued that foreign nationals gave money as political assistance to a US president. Don't know if that's illegal once the guy is in office... the framers of our Constitution left some loopholes for the guy in the oval office regarding conflicts of interest. They may have assumed the Prez would be constrained by the appearance of things; in this case, they were wrong.
     
  12. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #12
    Giuliani has no credibility. He actually called Comey a pathological liar, while working for the Liar-In-Chief. He attacked Mueller but then sort of retracted by shifting the blame to Rod Rosenstein. Looks like everyone but Trump is at risk of being thrown under a bus by him.
     
  13. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #13
    No they didn't. They wrote the emolument clause into the constitution. Congress just isn't enforcing it.
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    You think Trump would chuck him under the bus if he actually had anything criminal on him?
     
  15. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #15
    Yes. Why throw him under the bus if there's nothing there?
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #16
    True, although it hasn't been enforced for other presidents either as far as I know. On the other hand, most presidents have been at least compliant with statutes on gifts "to head of state" from foreign powers, ensuring their benefit accrues to the White House rather than to the President. For all I know Trump is careful about that too but it's a huge wink and nod from Congress so far that the President's hotel right down the road from the White House gets revenue from foreign delegations whose leaders meet with the President or other elected officials while visiting Washington DC.

    It's also true that the main statute on conflicts of interest applicable to federal employees (18 US Code 208) does not apply to elected officials including the President, Vice President, members of Congress, federal judges.

    However, the House and Senate have their own sets of ethics stipulations, and there is a code of conduct for the judiciary that emphasizes need to avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety. Impeachment over "abuse of power" may apply and ensue when one of these officials appears to have taken undue advantage of their position.

    Previous US presidents have made a point of acting as if the conflict of interest statutes applied to them, putting their holdings into blind trusts etc. Trump's gestures in that direction are revocable instruments that can easily be undone and did not result in divestiture, nor in blind trusts. Further, members of his family work for him in the government while retaining interests in his extended family's businesses. And as for "appearance of impropriety" we know Trump cares nothing for that, having bragged that his freedom from conflict of interest rules would allow him to make new real estate deals in say Dubai except that he "doesn't care to do that right now."

    Whatever Giuliani is up to in his odd "defense" of Trump --or an attempt to muddy legal waters by advance disclosure of stuff related to Mueller's inquiries-- it's pretty clear Rudy's not touching anything about conflicts of interest: he has tried to make Cohen's actions on behalf of Trump fall into a "routine matters" category. Sad decline for a guy who was once a prosecutor of dicey financial maneuvers. Helping to throw Cohen under the bus is beneath the Giuliani of those days.
     
  17. juanm, May 14, 2018
    Last edited: May 14, 2018

    juanm macrumors 65816

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    #17
    The President Of The United States and his attorney.

     
  18. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #18
    Michael Cohen, the embattled longtime personal attorney to President Donald Trump, is no longer playing an active role representing Trump, according to one of the president’s newest lawyers, Rudy Giuliani.

    “As far as we know, he’s not,” Giuliani told POLITICO in an interview Friday. “And there’d be nothing for him to do right now.

    Link: Politico

    Probably best that Giuliani wasn't on TV very much last week. After his "successful" first week, it's probably best to lay of the "winning" for a little while.
     
  19. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #19
    Cohen is going to sing like a canary to save his own ass. In the end it won't be Liberals or Congress that takes Trump down, it will be those who were most loyal to him that he's totally stabbed in the back.
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    Pretty simple, if he's involved in activities that don't implicate Trump then it would be smart to cut him loose. You only need to keep ties with him if he's hiding something for you. Another nothingburger with fries?
     
  21. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #21
    How much of a nothingburger it is remains to be seen. That's quite a side dish of fries though, isn't it. Fascinating to know that companies like AT&T and Novartis which regularly have business before the government's regulatory agencies would think to dump six and seven figures into contracts with Cohen for nebulous "insights" into the President's thinking. Heh, what was Cohen even ever going to be able to do, let those guys in on how Trump pays off women he'd used and discarded? What "insight" could Cohen possibly have on Trump's job-related thinking? All that stuff is from whoever last whispered some explanation or self-serving encouragement into Trump's ear anyway.
     
  22. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #22
    For when Cohen falls on his sword.
    [​IMG]

    (yes, extra ouchy!)
     
  23. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23
    But why did the same Cohen-controlled company (Essential consultants, LLC) that paid money to Stormy Daniels also receive payments from ATT, Novartis, etc.?

    It seems pretty much incontrovertible that the Stormy Daniels payment involved Donald Trump.

    Was that just laziness or stupidity on Cohen's part? Or does it seem at least plausible that - in Cohen's mind at least - it was part of the same deal?

    I do have to step back here for a moment, and reflect on the point we've got to with Trump. Pretty much any politician in the world would have resigned in disgrace after being caught paying hush money like this. Republicans impeached Bill Clinton over a (consensual, non-fiduciary) Oval Office assignation. But in Trump people's mind having your lawyer pay off both a pornstar and a Playboy centerfold: this is a "nothingburger".
     
  24. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #24
    With Trump supporters, it's not the amount of stuff that's uncovered - it doesn't even matter when the President is on the record lying, misleading or flat-out telling you "yeah, I did it, so what" - it's all a nothingburger. Like, an actual massive, Kobe Beef and Truffle Burger would be a nothingburger to the most ardent Trump supporters.
     
  25. Solomani thread starter macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #25
    There's no need to throw him under the bus if both parties (Cohen and Trump) were innocent. As such, this is more evidence that one of them (either Cohen or Trump or both) have committed crimes.
     

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