Trump in the White House: An Interview With Noam Chomsky

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by R.Perez, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    Great interview with Noam Chomsky on Truthout

    Here are some excerpts:

    "There are other factors in Trump's success. Comparative studies show that doctrines of white supremacy have had an even more powerful grip on American culture than in South Africa, and it's no secret that the white population is declining. In a decade or two, whites are projected to be a minority of the work force, and not too much later, a minority of the population. The traditional conservative culture is also perceived as under attack by the successes of identity politics, regarded as the province of elites who have only contempt for the ''hard-working, patriotic, church-going [white] Americans with real family values'' who see their familiar country as disappearing before their eyes."

    "The Democratic Party abandoned any real concern for working people by the 1970s, and they have therefore been drawn to the ranks of their bitter class enemies, who at least pretend to speak their language -- Reagan's folksy style of making little jokes while eating jelly beans, George W. Bush's carefully cultivated image of a regular guy you could meet in a bar who loved to cut brush on the ranch in 100-degree heat and his probably faked mispronunciations (it's unlikely that he talked like that at Yale), and now Trump, who gives voice to people with legitimate grievances -- people who have lost not just jobs, but also a sense of personal self-worth -- and who rails against the government that they perceive as having undermined their lives (not without reason).

    One of the great achievements of the doctrinal system has been to divert anger from the corporate sector to the government that implements the programs that the corporate sector designs, such as the highly protectionist corporate/investor rights agreements that are uniformly mis-described as "free trade agreements" in the media and commentary. With all its flaws, the government is, to some extent, under popular influence and control, unlike the corporate sector. It is highly advantageous for the business world to foster hatred for pointy-headed government bureaucrats and to drive out of people's minds the subversive idea that the government might become an instrument of popular will, a government of, by and for the people."

    "It's by no means new. Both political parties have moved to the right during the neoliberal period. Today's New Democrats are pretty much what used to be called "moderate Republicans." The "political revolution" that Bernie Sanders called for, rightly, would not have greatly surprised Dwight Eisenhower. The Republicans have moved so far toward a dedication to the wealthy and the corporate sector that they cannot hope to get votes on their actual programs, and have turned to mobilizing sectors of the population that have always been there, but not as an organized coalitional political force: evangelicals, nativists, racists and the victims of the forms of globalization designed to set working people around the world in competition with one another while protecting the privileged and undermining the legal and other measures that provided working people with some protection, and with ways to influence decision-making in the closely linked public and private sectors, notably with effective labor unions."

    "Deservedly or not, Clinton represented the policies that were feared and hated, while Trump was seen as the symbol of "change" -- change of what kind requires a careful look at his actual proposals, something largely missing in what reached the public. The campaign itself was remarkable in its avoidance of issues, and media commentary generally complied, keeping to the concept that true "objectivity" means reporting accurately what is "within the beltway," but not venturing beyond."

    Full interview: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/38360-trump-in-the-white-house-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky
     
  2. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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  3. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Stopped reading when he brought up white supremacy. If the Democrats want to keep losing elections they should follow his advice. The super majority of Republicans don't care a lick about race. They don't even care about the sex of the person. Look at the Republican primaries. Two Latinos, a white man married to a Latina with Latino children, a Black man, and a Female. Now take a gander at the Democrat primary. A White Male, a Jewish White Male and a White Woman who believe it was her turn to be President just because.
     
  4. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #4
    You're going to miss a lot of important information in your life if your eyes need a safe space when reading/analyzing ideas and information....
     
  5. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    So you completely avoid contrasting viewpoints based on your initial assumptions about where they are going with them? Your candidate won this election, that's true. But the future is not in your favor. A large body of support for Trump and the GOP more broadly is quite a bit older and younger voters clearly have a position in contrast to theirs. It seems it would serve you well to take the time to genuinely understand differing perspectives. Before and after Trumps win, I have spent a lot of time reading accounts of Trump voters on why they supported their candidate. I understand their choice even if I disagree vehemently with it. That said, Trump has a very scary wing of support from the white nationalist movement who saw him as legitimizing their views. Whether you agree that is Trumps fault or not, it is very real and undeniable.
     
  6. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Not really. The race card, the feminism card, they have been put in default. When you have to frame the reasonings for your opponent winning being race and comparing it to South African Apartheid, you've already lost the argument.
     
  7. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #7

    That was one point among many. You would know that if you had kept reading.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #8
    The White Nationalists that Trump has disavowed from the get?
     
  9. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #9
    Chomsky isn't a partisan, and he's discussing things much larger than a single person. If you're incapable or unwilling to view the world outside the "USA is the master of the universe" fishbowl that's a lack of intellectual curiosity on your end pal.
     
  10. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #10

    Holy hell. That's really quite irrelevant. Try having a real back and forth conversation here. Otherwise why bother?
     
  11. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    Yes it is. Now that Trump has disavowed them but installed some of the best propaganda people that have riled them up this election where do you propose we go from here? Does this uptick in white nationalism just disappear because Trump had comment X or Y about them?
     
  12. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Chomsky isn't a partisan? The little that I have read of his didn't scream objective. I don't believe "USA is the master of the universe" as you put it. I do believe that we should worry about America and her people first.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 15, 2016 ---
    You brought up a point, I countered that point, that's how debate/political discussion works. I mean if you would like nothing more than an echo chamber I can leave the thread.
     
  13. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Loosely translates as "Decided I wouldn't understand it"
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Bless your heart.
     
  15. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #15

    You didn't counter my point at all. You actually diverted from the point. Do you acknowledge that the white supremacist movement sees Trump as representing them or not? What Trump says about it is quite irrelevant. Actions speak louder than words anyway and selection of Bannon as chief strategist reinforces such claims. Now, it's worth acknowledging that white supremacists have called Bannon a "civic nationalist" but nonetheless see his views as largely aligned with theirs. Does it matter who Trump avows if his actual policy positions are aligned with those of white supremacists?
     
  16. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    How can you counter anything, when by your own admission you haven't even read the original post?
     
  17. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #17
    Let me say this outright. Sim667's post is condescending and adds nothing to the discussion.
     
  18. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #18
    Please let's not totally derail this thread before it even started because somebody wasn't interested in reading the OP.

    "Both political parties have moved to the right during the neoliberal period. Today's New Democrats are pretty much what used to be called "moderate Republicans."

    It gives me chills thinking about the present desire by large parts of the populations in western societies, not the majority but still, to vote (hence move) further to the right instead of back to the center. That's not what will bring unity and re-establishing the "social contract" which I guess almost everybody agrees upon to be of one of the major issues to be solved.
     
  19. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    Countered a point brought up by @R.Perez not the article. Trying following along here.
     
  20. R.Perez thread starter macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    Saying he's not a partisan does not mean that he doesn't have a perspective. He's saying that because Chomsky is highly critical of the US political apparatus at large.
     
  21. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    None of those users have any intention of trying to understand you..... the only thing they want to do is to spew bile and provoke a confrontation. Hence why the very first thing the poster in question wanted to do was offer opinion whilst proclaiming he didn't read the post.
     
  22. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #22
    Sure white nationalist see it as bolster their power, white nationalism didn't make Trump POTUS elect though, a higher turn out of voters that voted for Obama in 08' and 12' voted for the other side or decided the candidate their party selected wasn't worth it. Trump hasn't acknowledged the white nationalist, he's refused their support. Trump has also tried to engage in the African American community. I'll have to look up the totals but if Trump was pounding the white nationalism jive he would have garnered the support of Latinos, and Black. People are piling against Bannon why? Because his ex-wife said while going through divorce court that he hated Jews? There's a saying "hell hath no fury".
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    You can't pretend to assign partisanship to Chomsky when he has been deriding the entire American political structure as it operates for the last 60 years....

    :rolleyes:
     
  24. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    Noam Chomsky adds zero value to any discussion. He's like those Western "gunfighters" surrounded by a mythical bad reputation but in reality never even shot a person in their life.

    "McCabe & Mrs. Miller" comes to mind.
     
  25. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #25
    Not criticising you in particular but there seems to be a tendency on these boards to start with a reasonable first post then dive into the more weird areas of the right wing bubble which seemingly can't tell the difference between reality and Hollywood.Also noticeable is the functional illiteracy of some posters.
     

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