Trump: It is a waste of time to negotiate with North Korea

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    Maybe so, Cheeto Hitler but grownups use diplomacy first and up until the very moment you can't use it anymore. These Twitter tantrums of his are damaging to the diplomacy efforts and the US' reputation on the international stage. Someone needs to take the Dolt In Chief's phone away from him and lock him in an asylum somewhere. This is not what I wanted to see in my newsfeed on a Sunday. If we do end going to war because of Trump, then his children should be placed on the front lines.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...a-waste-of-time-to-negotiate-with-north-korea

    The Tweets are at the link.
     
  2. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #2
    Trump can’t back down or he looks like the US president who lost to NK.

    He’s running his mouth all the while hoping that China or Russia will step in to bail him out of this mess he’s made of it.

    I did hear something about China putting trade sanctions on NK last week, this may be the thing that actually gets NK to back down.

    But as far as trump goes - he’s in between a rock and a hard place right now, and unfortunately the stakes are pretty high.

    That said, it’s not in NK’s interest to start lobbing nukes around; that won’t end well for anyone. But its not in Kim’s interest to disarm, either. Just look at what happened to Gaddafi, Hussein, Bashad, etc.

    The only reason NK isn’t invaded already is BECAUSE Kim has nukes and has refused to back down.
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #3
    The US used diplomacy with North Korea for the past 20 years, up to the point of sending a past president to rescue a hostage.
    Time for talk is over.
     
  4. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #4
    Maybe your definition of democracy is a bit broken, applying sanctions and maintaining a military presence at the border isn’t “democracy”, its cold war.

    If you do the typical US gung ho thing with this, it’s going to end in disaster, and not just for North Korea, but South Korea, probably Japan, and likely a bunch of other countries (maybe including the USA) who want nothing to do with this.
     
  5. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #5
    Oops. I meant diplomacy.
    Autocorrect fail. Post fixed
     
  6. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #6
    Same same.

    Diplomacy doesn’t involve sanctions and parking your military halfway across the world on somebody’s doorstep either.

    Take a think about how the USA would react if NK put a huge number of troops in Cuba, pointed at the US coast? Then spent the past 6 - 12 months flying long range nuclear bombers over your coastline?
     
  7. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #7
    Oh please. NK has been given all accommodations humanly possible. And they got nukes, despite all the sanctions and UN resolutions. And they shoot missiles above Japan. Despite all the accommodations.
    The truth is simple. The Kim family can’t refrain from being aggressive and they will use their nukes as soon as they become able to actually launch them.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 1, 2017 ---
    So you want to leave SK by itself? Do you want the Us to revoke an alliance?
    I thought that Vietnam thought us something.
     
  8. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #8
    And what do you call flying B1s on the edge of NK air-space?

    This sort of idiocy is how global nuclear war starts.

    The idiot running your country needs to get with the program, and stop pushing us towards nuclear winter.
     
  9. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #9
    Yeah because it started with Trump. Or Obama.
    The day that the US (and China) let the North Koreans have nuke is the day that pushed us towards nuclear winter.
     
  10. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #10
    Sure, if that’s what needs to happen for global stability.

    Look up how WW1 started.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 1, 2017 ---
    Sorry, but how many civilians has any other country nuked?
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Unless you're ready to start fighting, the time to talk is never over.
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #12
    Yep, leaving an ally to fight one of the strongest armies in the world (at least body count wise) to fight in what it will be a bloody war is the certain way to ensure global stability. Allies will trust the Us even more, sure. It won’t be a race to arms in order to prevent what happens to SK once left alone. Sure.

    Different situation
     
  13. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #13
    Exactly.

    Has anyone actually asked what Kim wants? I’m sure “more aggressive sanctions to try cripple your economy” is not one of those things.

    But hey, he’s one of the bad countries who wants to trade in non US currency. Like Iran, Syria, Iraq in 2003, Libya, Russia, China, etc.

    Those are the bad guys.

    Never mind Saudi Arabia, who has the worst human rights record on the planet. They’re cool because they’re OPEC.

    If this was in any way about freedom, etc. you guys would have invaded Saudi Arabia decades ago.
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #14
    You do realize that you can compare situations that aren't exactly the same ... right?
     
  15. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #15
    It’s completely different. Not just different. Two different worlds.
     
  16. throAU, Oct 1, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017

    throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #16
    Blindly clinging to defensive pacts (and throwing diplomacy out the window) when the security of the world is sacrificed for it is exactly the same thing happening here. The big difference here is that we’re talking global nuclear war, WW1 was horrific, but the tens of millions who died were only via conventional means.

    And again. Has NK attacked anyone? Have they invaded anyone (in the past 40+ years)? The “aggression” here is the USA waving their .mil around provocatively.

    Much like the whole “russian aggression” - look up where the US military bases are in europe, compare to Russian bases near the US....
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #17
    Are you against NATO?


    The problem (which answers your other question, what does Kim want) is that Mr Kim has a serious problem of domestic policy and politics. He’s in a very bad spot right now, I do not envy him. Ask yourself why Kim Jong Il wasn’t really happy to develop a nuclear program.
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Don't limit yourself that way.

    The ability to compare and contrast situations is a time-honored way to learn about the world around you.

    Denying any comparison exists is a reflexion of your desire not to look at the issue.
     
  19. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #19
    Then it would be prudent for Trump to keep quiet and really think carefully before he says anything... for which he has a really, really poor record for.

    Well at least a nuclear war will be quick. May what ever survives remembers such folly.
     
  20. throAU macrumors 603

    throAU

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    #20

    1. Yes, the more i learn about NATO, the more military deployment in the name of big business i see. They’re not about the free world, they’re about big banking interests.

    2. Elaborate. Serious domestic policy problems seem to be more Trump’s problem at the moment. Global war would kinda deflect public attention away from that...
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #21
    Limit myself? Do you want to talk about the residues of Vienna’s? Or do you want to talk about Moltke? Or Haig? Any comparison between the Somme and what might happen? The results of Metternich’s and Castelnau? Compared to Biden maybe?
     
  22. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #22
    Right. Let's not talk any more. Let's have a nuclear exchange instead. That's far better than more talk... ;)
     
  23. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #23
    We are waiting for NK to make a mistake.
     
  24. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #24
    What's the odds that Trump makes a mistake before Kim does? Both guys have a lot of experience dancing near the edge. Trump, though, has in fact gone bankrupt at least four times now, so I don't like his odds...
     
  25. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #25
    Guys guys....don't fall for it. This isn't what he thinks about North Korea today, this is about waving a shiny object around and trying to distract everyone from his failures in Puerto Rico. He's trying to get the media to talk about something else.
     

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130 October 1, 2017