Trump, Joining Allies, Expels 60 Russians Over Poisoning in U.K.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by samcraig, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #1
    A positive move

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/world/europe/trump-russia-diplomats-expulsion.html

    President Trump ordered the expulsion of 60 Russians from the United States on Monday, adding to a growing cascade of similar actions taken by western allies in response to Russia’s alleged poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain.

    Poland, Italy, Denmark, France and Germany were among 14 European Union member nations announcing plans to expel Russians from their countries in solidarity with Britain, which previously expelled 23 Russian diplomats after the poisoning. Canada also said it would expel four.

    The American expulsion order, announced by administration officials, includes 12 people identified as Russian intelligence officers who have been stationed at the United Nations in New York, and also closes the Russian consulate in Seattle. The Russians and their families have seven days to leave the United States, according to officials.

    Now... cynical me wonders if anyone being expelled has dirt on Trump. Regardless... a good move.
     
  2. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #2
    Finally Trump does something with which I agree. Hopefully Russia will take notice and stop these attacks. Had a single citizen of the UK died from this Russian debacle, it would have been deemed (1) an act of war and (2) a war crime (chemical warfare; targeting civilians). 200 people were reported as feeling ill after the attack and the police officer who responded first was hospitalised and might never fully recover. The intended targets might not live. This was a serious event and I do not think that this is made clear enough in some of the international news.
     
  3. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #3
    I'm surprised he did it. He finds it so difficult to criticize Putin I bet advisers has to work Trump over to agree to this.
     
  4. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #4
    Maybe they just took him for a walk on the greens at Mar a Lago and said don't worry, countries send agents home all the time, Vladimir won't take it personally. :D
     
  5. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #5
    The Russians if they have dirt, won’t release anything until they figure they can’t milk their favorite US based asset anymore, and will wait for something really big to undermine Trump.
     
  6. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #6
    I’m surprised he would actually do this, but at least he has done something I agree with now.
     
  7. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #7
    Only in this world could cutting off of diplomatic relations between most of “The West” and Russia be considered a good thing.

    Did anyone take a history class? We’re celebrating the same moves that led to WWI.

    “But Russia = bad!” I don’t give a ****, when the spark goes off that sucks all of NATO into a hot war I’m not going to be rooting for any side, we’ve marched ourselves here through diplomatic belligerence.

    Liberals are cheerleading war, conservatives are feeding the Liberal push by refusing to impeach this ****er on what are clearly illegal business practices, and I’m left wondering if there is ANY realization how dangerous this ratcheting of tensions (based on the same tactics that led to the Iraq war) truly is for the world.
     
  8. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #8
    Would you prefer we try appeasement and take the same moves that led to WWII?
     
  9. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #9
    Do you see armies marching anywhere? Are you under the delusion that Russia, by defending its navy (Syria/Crimea), is trying to take over the world?

    All I’ve seen over the last FIVE years is the continuation of marching towards Russia’s borders with NATO and a huge buildup of weaponry on their borders.

    This has been going on since Obama’s administration while the Liberals have been shown to not have an anti-war bone in their collective body.
     
  10. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #10
    I'm not cheerleading. But I think that if you commit an act such as what happened in the UK, you should be held accountable.
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    Nobody has cut diplomatic relations. More diplomats does not necessary mean better engagement, and Russia ignored Britain's response in their last assassination in British soil, which involved radioactivity and also contaminated the surroundings and people nearby. If Russia want better diplomatic relations, then they have to stop acting like a bunch of mindless thugs. Indeed, they're lucky this did not escalate into a shooting war.
     
  12. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #12
    Invading a sovereign country and annexing its territory is not defending oneself. I’m assuming when you read your history books you think that Germany was actually defending itself when they annexed the Sudentenland?
     
  13. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #13
    The thing is, if the Russia collusion happened and they managed to entrap Trump –even if Mueller cannot conclusively prove it– the Russians are certainly going to keep the smoking gun safe until they decide to use it...

    Which means that hypothetically, they could throw the US (and hence to some measure the rest of the world) in their deepest political crisis since... ever?

    Of course, Trump is an astute person with a very high IQ and such a stable genius could never, ever be manipulated and be put in a position of potential blackmailing, God forbid.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #14
    Sure, how about we actually get price instead of the belligerent assertions from May and Borris?

    They STILL haven’t provided samples as required under the CWC (which they are still enacting anyway), but making moves based on their evidence-less assertions.

    I mean this 100%, can you not see the replay of the Iraq war afoot? Actions before PROOF? May and Borris are asserting the substance tested positive while the police have stated its going to take 3 weeks for the testing to be finished. Not to mention if this **** actually was Novachik (samples only exist in 4 locations on the planet, a weapons lab 10 miles from Salisbury being one of them).

    So again I have to ask WHY ARE ACTIONS BEIG TAKEN THAT HAVE NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO ESCALATE TENSIONS *BEFORE* PROOF IS SHOWN. The words of a government WHO EXPLICITLY COOKED THE INTELLIGENCE FOR THE IRAQ WAR is not good enough. Over two million lives destroyed from that one and we’re already willing to follow the same path to a MUCH bigger war? Why?
    --- Post Merged, Mar 26, 2018 ---
    Crimea had a treaty with Russia that explicitly allowed those troops to be there. I know nobody cares about international law, but Russia had every right to defend their navy in the middle of a US coup.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 26, 2018 ---
    Where’s the proof? Mindless thuggery is expelling diplomats prior to PROOF being disclosed.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 26, 2018 ---
    Prove it.
     
  15. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #15
    Cirmea was a Russian a brute-force land-grab, or 'Anschluss' if you prefer.
     
  16. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #16
    Where’s your application of that standard to the US in Syria right now? We’re occupying that country illegally while Russia is not, but you don’t see that on Corporate News. Funny, that.
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #17
    This incident in the UK was far less about any of that than about Putin sending a domestic message in the wake of a re-election process widely seen as highly rigged, even before the polls opened. There is dissension in Putin's lands and doubtless in the ranks of those who ostensibly serve him.

    The message was clear: betrayal will not go unpunished no matter how long it takes nor where it must be meted out. It wasn't really a message to Skripal so much as to all the potential Skripals not yet recognized. It's impossible to be Vladimir Putin and to have his track record (plus whatever we don't even know of it) and yet wear his title easily or sleep well at night.

    Putin's still the KGB guy who was sitting in Dresden brooding as the Berlin Wall came down. He'll always be that guy, and on top of that he's long since been corrupted by his power and has become a uncommonly empowered thief among the other oligarchs still ripping off Russia. After all to be able to continue ripping off a country one must let the leader wet his beak as well.

    Were Putin not all those things, then the course of NATO and the West would have been different, and indeed was different prior to his arrival as head of the Russian state. That he was embraced as strongman may be understandable considering the economic shambles on tap under the indisciplines of the Yeltsin government, but his ascension and behavior since then were bound to change the behavior of all his neighbors and all their allies. And so they have done. This is on Putin. He is who failed to right the ship of the Russian Federation and has increasingly emulated what was the behavior of the USSR instead. When he makes moves on the chessboard that resemble well known gambits of past games, they are recognized as such, and draw the responses they merit.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #18
    Where is the proof of what the toxin was, and why has the UK moved on without that proof? I’m done with boogie man narratives, I’m not supporting any more wars unless I see some goddamn proof.
     
  19. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #19
    Whoever told you that Russian troops were threatened on their naval base was lying to you. Russia had a treaty that allowed them to use the base through the 2040’s, no one was threatening that. The most it was threatened was that if the Ukrainian government went to the West and stayed that way for the next 30 years it might not have been renewed. But international law doesn’t allow you to invade a sovereign nation just because you are worried they won’t renew your lease in 30 years. Their treaty also did not give them the right to occupy any more of Crimea than the navy base they were leasing. If you want to talk about caring about international law then how about Russia removing all identifying insignia from their soldiers before having them invade?
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #20
    Ah, the selective adherence of international law comes up yet again. Tell me, what authorization do we have to permanently set up in Syria? Certainly not the Syrian governments.

    Again, on the whole international treaty bent, you don’t find it odd that the U.K. has not supplied testing samples to Russia as required under the CWC treaty? Or that the U.K. gave Russia 24 hours to respond when the CWC explicitly states they have 10 days after making a formal complaint to the board of governors?

    Why is the US supporting and funding outright neonazi parties in Ukraine?

    Every step of assertions from the U.K. has been one big Gish Gallop based on further assertions.

    I’ve seen three explicit wars in my lifetime carried out by an endless campaign of narratives without evidence. I’m not going to support another one.
     
  21. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #21
    So you’re going to deflect instead of answering my questions.
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #22
    We could go back to my questioning of whether the proof is in the U.K., where this all started. Other than the narrative that Theresa May has put out a where is the proof? Why are they not following the CWC requirements?
     
  23. rafark macrumors 6502a

    rafark

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    #23
    are they?
     
  24. RedKite macrumors regular

    RedKite

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    #24
    Good. Can’t stand Russia. Been watching many documentaries about how backwards and conservative they’ve gone. Outlawed protests, government agents that beat up homosexuals, legal to beat up your wife and kids, and that’s not counting the racism there!... a very bad country for sure. Unfortunately I see people in non Russian countries supporting them and it makes me wonder if they too agree with their laws..... if they too want to beat their wives. (It’s always right wing western men I see that support Russia.... funny that)
     
  25. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #25
    Or how about we stick with your first post:

    Before we go down any new rabbit trails.
     

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