Trump just decided to wreck Health Insurance Markets via EO

Zwopple

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 27, 2008
118
496
Trump just decided that he will issue an EO ending cost sharing subsidies to the Obamacare Markets. Some people called these illegal but they were there to help poor people who couldn't afford insurance get into the insurance market.

Given that poor people are now likely to flee the marketplace because they can't afford insurance you can pretty much guarantee that over the next few years:

  1. Insurance premiums are going to go up for everyone, less people = less cost sharing = higher premiums.
  2. The uninsured rate is going to go up

The blame is going to go squarely to Trump and the GOP on this for deciding to unanimously wreck the insurance markets without a replacement.
 

MadeTheSwitch

macrumors 6502a
Apr 20, 2009
832
15,204
Wonder how this will impact me. No cost sharing will equal no insurance for me. No insurance equals..well, either death, bankruptcy or both. So if I can't afford insurance I will be hitting up all the Trump voters here to keep me alive. Oh...and I will be filing some lawsuits too I guess. Happy days. :rolleyes:
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,474
8,051
Somewhere
A lot of people are going to go bankrupt or die. But since this is what the voters said they wanted, they get it. The only good thing is this will completely destroy the private insurance market and leave single payer as the only viable option.
[doublepost=1507867109][/doublepost]
EO challenged successfully in courts in 3 ... 2 ...
Honestly I think he will be able to get away with it since some things were left fairly open to interpretation in the ACA in order to try to get bipartisan approval.
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,839
Midlife, Midwest
Doesn’t matter, if they are actually illegal.
Illegal?

That depends on your definition. I'll try and keep this short.

The ACA depends, to a certain degree, on cost-sharing subsidies paid by the Federal Government to insurance companies for some of the costs involved in covering otherwise-uninsurable people. In 2014, Congressional Republicans sued to stop this, saying that there hadn't been a specific appropriations bill to cover these payments. Note: The ACA created revenue streams (AKA "taxes") that would essentially pay for these costs.

The Congressional lawsuit is still in the Courts. The subsidy payments will total about $7 billion this year. Health insurers, unsure whether or not they would actually receive these subsidies, have greatly increased individual premiums.

Long story short: The filthy maggot you voted for is doing his absolute best to take affordable health insurance away from as many Americans as possible. Not to reduce the budget deficit, or lower your taxes. But because he is just an *******.

Hope you sleep well tonight.
 
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citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
... Honestly I think he will be able to get away with it since some things were left fairly open to interpretation in the ACA in order to try to get bipartisan approval.
For all the Right’s whining about how the ACA was passed, it was at least passed through both houses of Congress before being signed by the president.

If y’all aren’t immediately against the EO as being an overreach of authority, then you are hypocrites.

Full stop.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 68040
Mar 3, 2010
3,611
24,590
Texas
Wonder how this will impact me. No cost sharing will equal no insurance for me. No insurance equals..well, either death, bankruptcy or both. So if I can't afford insurance I will be hitting up all the Trump voters here to keep me alive. Oh...and I will be filing some lawsuits too I guess. Happy days. :rolleyes:
GoFundMe !!!
[doublepost=1507867878][/doublepost]
Illegal?

That depends on your definition. I'll try and keep this short.

The ACA depends, to a certain degree, on cost-sharing subsidies paid by the Federal Government to insurance companies for some of the costs involved in covering otherwise-uninsurable people. In 2014, Congressional Republicans sued to stop this, saying that there hadn't been a specific appropriations bill to cover these payments. Note: The ACA created revenue streams (AKA "taxes") that would essentially pay for these costs.

The Congressional lawsuit is still in the Courts. The subsidy payments will total about $7 billion this year. Health insurers, unsure whether or not they would actually receive these subsidies, have greatly increased individual premiums.

Long story short: The filthy maggot you voted for is doing his absolute best to take affordable health insurance away from as many Americans as possible. Not to reduce the budget deficit, or lower your taxes. But because he is just an *******.

Hope you sleep well tonight.
I honestly have no knowledge of the topic, so I really can’t make a conversation on it without lying to you and pretend that I know something I don’t, which is something I try to avoid.
So I asked if they are illegal, based on what the OP said. I have no idea, and I have no clue.

However, surprisingly - and probably shockingly - I do agree with you on principle. If these subsidies are not illegal - and I have no basis to say they are - then I would go and be on the side of caution and be against its removal by EO until I know further. While it might be true that they might not be the solution, removing subsidies without an alternative can cause further damage. So, for now, I do trust your analysis.
 
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MadeTheSwitch

macrumors 6502a
Apr 20, 2009
832
15,204
Bottom line, between this and his handling of Puerto Rico, Trump has shown his distain for poor people and wants to **** all over them.

I'm not one to normally wish bad things on people. But if the choice comes down to him or me, I choose him. I would like to see him have the health problems I and others have beyond "bone spurs". I want him to experience days like I have where I was too weak and run down to even get out of bed. I want him to experience having to rely on a wheelchair because he can no longer walk an extended amount of time like I have to. I want him to have to crawl up stairs because he is too weak and dizzy to stand up and walk them. Or all the many other things I have to go through which I will not repeat here. Because only then might he understand, and even then probably not as he can never understand the financial hardship having been born with a silver spoon in his mouth. But perhaps it would be a wee bit humbling for him to have something that he has to repeatedly go to the hospital for like many of us do, just in order to live.

Yeah I have been on that side, with a weak heart and no insurance. And no job. Humor helped me in a very dark moment.
Remember: I am for single payer.
The thing I remember is that you have been behind Trump and I think even voted for him. That is what I will remember.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 68040
Mar 3, 2010
3,611
24,590
Texas
So you’re anti-republican?

Oh nooo. I’m not a single issue voter.
I am me. How many times do I have to repeat that I supported Obama in 2008 and 2012, that I am not sorry for it, that I hoped for a Biden run, and that I am for single payer - which is a system I used to have my chest open, and my heart repaired?
Don’t label me with a political party please; it’s the only thing I ask.
[doublepost=1507868644][/doublepost]
d I think even voted for him. That is what I will remember.
Tell your party to have a better candidate next time, possibly one that doesn’t rig the primaries.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
I am me. How many times do I have to repeat that I supported Obama in 2008 and 2012, that I am not sorry for it, that I hoped for a Biden run, and that I am for single payer - which is a system I used to have my chest open, and my heart repaired?
Don’t label me with a political party please; it’s the only thing I ask.
I respond to what I read in your post.

I honestly couldn’t give a damn about who you voted for in ‘08 or ‘12.

All I care about is your ability to think, reason and articulate your position.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 68040
Mar 3, 2010
3,611
24,590
Texas
I respond to what I read in your post.

I honestly couldn’t give a damn about who you voted for in ‘08 or ‘12.

All I care about is your ability to think, reason and articulate your position.
And my thought is only one: we need single payer. Anything else is a ***** joke, a total trap for low/mid earners, a scam. Obamacare is a scam, and all the republican proposals are a scam. Obamacare probably destroyed the possibility to see single payer in our lifetime.
As for the legality, according to the Hill “federal court ruled the payments were being made illegally” and Obama appealed. Yet they couldn’t find a freaking solution to this problem? Meh.
 

daflake

macrumors 6502a
Apr 8, 2008
920
4,225
Hah. Funny. People being taken to the brink of financial ruin and your response is a joke?
As I have mentioned before. The ACA already shot my premiums through the roof as well as my deductible. I have insurance that I can't afford to use. Thanks Obama?

Oh, and before you beat me up, I am FOR universal healthcare but what we have doesn't work or make sense.

All Obama did was force a business to provide a service that nobody is paying for.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 68040
Mar 3, 2010
3,611
24,590
Texas
As I have mentioned before. The ACA already shot my premiums through the roof as well as my deductible. I have insurance that I can't afford to use. Thanks Obama?

Oh, and before you beat me up, I am FOR universal healthcare but what we have doesn't work or make sense.

All Obama did was force a business to provide a service that nobody is paying for.
Exactly.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
And my thought is only one: we need single payer. Anything else is a ***** joke, a total trap for low/mid earners, a scam. Obamacare is a scam, and all the republican proposals are a scam. Obamacare probably destroyed the possibility to see single payer in our lifetime.
As for the legality, according to the Hill “federal court ruled the payments were being made illegally” and Obama appealed. Yet they couldn’t find a freaking solution to this problem? Meh.
Meh?

One day, after trump is impeached and disgraced, i’ll be happy to remind you that you responded to this blatant overreach with a mere, “meh.”

Say bye-bye to credibility.

Bye.
 

daflake

macrumors 6502a
Apr 8, 2008
920
4,225
Tell your candidate to not kill me right now. A wee bit more important than your silly rigging charge. For someone who has gone through what you have, you certainly seem awfully insensitive now.
Got it, so your candidate trying to kill me is okay?

Trump is not mine, but I do hope that he works to fix the mess yours (and mine actually) left me.
 

jpietrzak8

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2010
1,053
6,082
Dayton, Ohio
Tell your party to have a better candidate next time, possibly one that doesn’t rig the primaries.
If Trump shows us anything, it is that the primaries should be rigged, just as the founding fathers designed them to be. Running the country is serious business, and only qualified candidates should be chosen for the job. Donald Trump is the most unqualified president this country has ever elected, and we are paying the price.

The Republican Party should fold for even allowing him to be considered for their nominee. If your primary process is so open that people who don't believe in what you stand for can represent your party, then you don't have a party in the first place!
 

Zwopple

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 27, 2008
118
496
I agree with both of you, Obamacare probably would have worked out a lot better if the GOP didn't do everything in their power to sabotage it from day one. If it was fully embraced it probably would've worked out better for everyone.

Unfortunately for the GOP their sabotaging this means that the only thing that they can do now is delay Single Payer because eventually nobody is going to be stupid enough to buy the insane BS of trickle down health care.

Also as far as I know the subsidies were written into law, however there was a question of legality about paying them w/o congressional approval every single year since congress retains the power of the purse. But I bet this ends up in the Supreme Court within 6 months now because it's a very very big deal to the health insurance market stability.

The biggest issue I have with this is that Trump is taking a big crap on a situation that is already crappy enough. He should have waited until a proper deal could be brokered in Congress before wrecking the insurance markets.