Trump makes rally attendees swear allegiance - to HIM

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    In an event unprecedented in modern American political life, Donald Trump asked the audience at a recent rally to raise their arms and swear to vote for him in an upcoming election.



    It's unwise, generally, to make too many comparisons between the actions of any modern American politician and the notorious Adolf Hitler. But in this case, I think some reflection, at least, is warranted.

    Asking people to perform this sort of solemn act is extremely dangerous. What if, between the time these people make their solemn pledge, and they go into the voting booth, Trump commits some dreadful crime? He kills a child driving drunk. He is indicted for murder or grand larceny. Are those people still expected to honor their pledge - and vote for a known criminal?

    As someone who has studied, extensively, the history of the Second World War; the pledge of personal allegiance to Adolf Hitler - as opposed to the nation of Germany, or its Constitution - was incredibly damaging to the officers of the German armed forces. No matter how disastrous Hitler's actions. No matter how horrendous his crimes. The Colonels and Generals of Nazi Germany felt morally and intellectually unable to act in any way to stop or impede Hitler as he drove their country and its people into the abyss.

    We don't do that in the United States. Officers and troops of our armed forces pledge Allegiance to the United States. They swear to uphold the Constitution. They swear to obey all lawful orders. But they are not bound to the personal individual officers in the chain of command, up to and including the Commander in Chief. So if the General commanding their Brigade, or the President in the White House, is lawfully deprived of their office - then there is no problem in them disobeying their orders.

    Maybe Trump thinks his "pledge" was a joke. A harmless piece of political theater.

    But its not. Pledges of Allegiance are not things to be taken lightly. If you swear to do something - be it tell the truth in a legal case, or take an oath of citizenship - its something you should take extremely seriously. For Trump to inflict that burden on his supporters tells us a great deal of the ultimate contempt he feels for them - and the traditions and laws of the country he wishes to lead.
     
  2. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    The Donald does not quite have the same sense of horror
     
  3. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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  4. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    But it wasn't funny. Neither is the mob violence that seems to be an inevitable part of Trump events.
     
  5. FieldingMellish, Mar 10, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

    FieldingMellish Suspended

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    So it's humor you did not find funny. Big surprise.

    And let's please not forget. Here is a mainstream media ignoring but caught by Fox expose of racist thuggery by SEIU during Obama's run up to the presidency.

    Do not think this is isolated. More damning evidence of hooliganism is trivially available.

     
  6. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    wasn't funny to you maybe. i do agree w/ the mob violence though. also i do think his "explanation" for mob violence was pretty weak in the debate
     
  7. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    As for the deplorable actions of a few Trump supporters (aside from voting for him- ZING) - like his campaign manager allegedly assaulting a female reporter, a 78 year old man sucker punching a black male protestor, etc- I'm not at the point where I'm buying the connection that the media seems to throw out there but is not explicitly saying- that somehow Trump is supporting people resort to violence. This kind of stuff happens all the time and all different settings.

    I am however perturbed by this "pledge of allegiance" to Trump. I'm not sure if what a joke or serious, or something in between- it would be nice to have more context. As the OP stated, the American people should not be pledging allegiance to the president, rather the country as a whole. The idea of Trump as president gives me an very uneasy feeling, and this only adds to it.

    I know I will probably heat for saying this but Trump is much like Obama in my mind. The blind leading the blind. In 2008 people unquestionably committed themselves to Obama as God's greatest gift to politics. In fact, Obama won the Nobel Prize - for what, I'm still not sure- something about bringing people together. Both sides generally agree his foreign policy has been very poor. Now the pendulum of politics has swung sharply to the right. We have a front runner with limited political experience, little political record to stand on, and someone promising the world who unlikely deliver.
     
  8. shinji macrumors 65816

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    [​IMG]

    Of course, lots of candidates have used pledges in the past, just not in the attention-seeking, half-joking way Trump did.
     
  9. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    This seems to be a uniquely american thing..... Swearing allegiances is a bit weird imo.
     
  10. Meister Suspended

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    People filling out pledges to swear allegiance to Hitlary Clinton must also trigger reflections on Hitler in you then.

    Her role model is mengelesque Sanger and she supports KKKs Byrd ... Watching Hitlary must be a regular reflecting-on-Hitler-fest for you.
     
  11. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    Pledge is the word. At least in America. ;)
     
  12. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    That is an absolutely absurd comparison.

    In 2008 Barack Obama used words like "Hope" and "Change" that appealed to people's best emotions. And he was seen, around the world, as an exemplar of the American ideal.

    Donald Trump appeals to the worst in humanity. His rhetoric is studded with violent phrases like "punch in face". He constantly belittles and taunts his opponents. He talks of walls and expulsions. His rallies are constantly marked by violence. And there is an endless list of incidents of violence, intimidation and racism linked to his supporters.

    In 2009 Barack Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. In 2015 the British Parliament debated banning Donald Trump from entering that country due to his history of violent, xenophobic demagoguery.

    If you think there is any comparison between the two, you've seriously lost the plot.
     
  13. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    Same thing. Still weird.
     
  14. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    That's really not the point I was making and maybe I didn't explain it well. In my mind Trump and Obama are the different sides of the same coin, anthisises of eachother, foils. Obama certainly has a much more positive and friendly aura, but like I said the pendulum has swung to the opposite side. The Trump supporters are looking for the opposite of Obama- a loud mouthed, bully, who will *seemingly* not back down to his opposition. I feel like Trump can be completely wrong on something but the fact he does not appologize seems to make people like him more.

    At the end of the day though, I have little confidence Trump would ever be able to negotiate or push through the things he wants with such a divisive mentality.
     
  15. AlliFlowers Contributor

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    Making a pledge to vote for someone, making a financial pledge to a charity...these are not the same as pledging allegiance or fealty to a person. That's normally reserved for weddings.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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  17. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    How will he hold them to their word?

    How will they hold him to his?

    It all looks harmless enough and as the saying goes, "if it walks like a duck": It's just a candidate's way of lifting spirits and camaraderie, and solidarity, of the audience.
     

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