Trump May Be Preparing Pardons for Servicemen Accused of War Crimes

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, May 19, 2019.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    President Trump has indicated that he is considering pardons for several American military members accused or convicted of war crimes, including high-profile cases of murder, attempted murder and desecration of a corpse, according to two United States officials.

    The officials said that the Trump administration had made expedited requests this week for paperwork needed to pardon the troops on or around Memorial Day.

    One request is for Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher of the Navy SEALs, who is scheduled to stand trial in the coming weeks on charges of shooting unarmed civilians and killing an enemy captive with a knife while deployed in Iraq.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/18/us/trump-pardons-war-crimes.html

    Can we impeach Trump for this? The SEAL that stands trial was ratted out by his fellow SEALs.
     
  2. Crowbot macrumors regular

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    The president could be impeached for abuse if it was done to cover his own crimes but in this instance I don't think the option would apply. Distasteful as it is, his right to pardon is almost unassailable.
     
  3. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    Probably not something that the House would consider impeachable, but just one more piece of evidence that Trump is a genuinely reprehensible human being. If he is re-elected after everything voters know about him, then I will have lost all hope for the future of this country.
     
  4. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    No, a President has the authority to issue pardons even though we might not like the circumstances. Looking more into the charges, the desecration of corpse, having a reenlistment or flying a drone in proximity of a corpse is not a war crime, even though it may be repulsive.

    I'm for due process, so war crimes are not war crime unless convicted. Having trouble reading links provided, seems like a lot of inconsistencies, in one where witness when asked by NCIS asked if crimes were committed he said "No". A lot of stuff cropped up by rumors, in one instance the stabbing death of a war prisoner was mentioned by a member who had mentioned it but never witnessed it, but referring to another who saw it. And even that witness recollection was sketchy as told to NCIS.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...cution-against-navy-seals-takes-a-double-hit/

    Need to read more sources to really get a better understanding of case.
     
  5. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    Yep. It’s wishful thinking on my part.
     
  6. Crowbot macrumors regular

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    It's still important, though. We have to point out all of his "eccentricities". As Comey said, he eats souls in little bites.
    --- Post Merged, May 19, 2019 ---

    Do you believe that the president did that careful analysis before he issued the pardon?
     
  7. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    Of course Fox and Friends is defending Trump. The thing is just like there are bad/mentally unstable people in any walk of life it’s true for the military too. Just because someone joins the military it doesn’t absolve them of certain responsibilities. I support the troops 100%. I have a nephew serving in Iraq right now. But I don’t think being in the military means one can never do bad things or be absolved from any criticism just because they’re in the military. Also why the rush to pardon? Let the process play out.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-fri...-the-good-guys/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
     
  8. Crowbot macrumors regular

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    Because they can't face the stigma of having been convicted. They think that a pardon means the crime was erased. That they weren't really guilty after all. Trump is demeaning the pardon process. I just hope the next president starts day 1 by saying "OK, we're going back to normal now".
     
  9. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    This comment (click) perfectly summarizes Trumps popularity. People just do NOT CARE as long as they aren't affected negatively by something Trump does.

     

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  10. eatrains macrumors 6502

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  11. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    I don't understand how he can pardon someone accused of war crimes, but people have to realize that if one accepts a pardon, they are admitting guilt.

    So, if Edward Gallagher accepts the pardon, he has to admit to his crimes or the UCMJ is meaningless. Moreover, this creates a serious problem for senior level staff because it means that the president can decide, whenever it's politically convenient, to reject the code. But, they can't publicly admonish the president's actions, so what are they supposed to do?

    Here's the thing, the case against Gallagher has some problems, but if we believe in the legal system, we'd let the chips fall where they may. By pardoning him, Trump yet again shows his disdain for law and order. And, so do his supporters.
     
  12. jerwin macrumors 68020

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  13. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    A Philosopher of Law on the Dangers of Trump’s Plan to Pardon American War Criminals

     
  14. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    I'm going to comment on this just to drive this salient point home. Our military is part of several agreements about war crimes, and our ability to operate in those agreements is derived from our promise that we will prosecute our own people. If our president just pardons people based on his own gut-feelings, then no other country should trust us, the UCMJ, nor our agreements.

    As usual Trump's noted idiocy, and his ability to be swayed by a Fox News report, shows why he's a terrible, awful, no good president.
     
  15. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    It is, again, another shining example of Trump's terrible lack of foresight.

    The thing about military prosecutions, and the entire concept of "rules of war": They are an essential component of military discipline and order.

    Throughout history, armies where widespread looting and rape, for instance, became acceptable saw overall discipline break down. If you think your squad mates are more interested in lining their pockets and having a little party with the local Frauleins than in keeping watch or digging foxholes - then that's the beginning of the end of the mission.

    The rules about treatment of prisoners, likewise, are an essential component of military discipline. If you wantonly murder helpless prisoners, it's pretty tough to expect that one's own prisoners can hope for much mercy. Meaning when the going starts to get tough, your frontline troops are going to start looking for an exit rather sooner than you'd like.

    I'd recommend anyone who hasn't done so, take a look at the case Edward Gallagher, one of the Navy SEALs Trump is apparently considering pardoning.

    People like Gallagher are a threat to the safety and effectiveness of his own SEAL team.

     
  16. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

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    You shouldn't be "planning" pardons. They should be on a case by case basis as they come, after deliberations (i.e. discussions, looking over facts, etc... which we know Trump doesn't do). Unless this was some sort of case where someone was proven innocent or something, then yeah, I could see a Memorial Day ceremony for vindication, but this is ridiculous and purely for show, with no thought to anyone - not even the person or people he's pardoning. This is all about how it makes him look and nothing more.
     
  17. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

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