Trump mental evaluation time by psychiatrists

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stylinexpat, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    Mar 6, 2009
  2. darksithpro macrumors regular

    Oct 27, 2016
    Perhaps members of Congress should take the test as well, starting with Pelosi and McCain.
  3. Zenithal Suspended

    Sep 10, 2009
    Can't argue with Pelosi, but why McCain? Because he voted against the health care bill? Because he, for once, thought about the lasting effect it would have on his constituents? Because unlike some in the GOP, he'd rather think with his brain than his wallet?
  4. A.Goldberg, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68000


    Jan 31, 2015
    Somewhat ridiculous in my opinion. Psychiatry is not exactly a hard science in the sense there is a level subjectivity and a great deal of influence of public opinion. It's not like high blood pressure where one can objectively measure blood pressure and determine it is too high or too low.

    One of the major usual requirements to diagnose someone with a mental health condition is that they must be consequently "distressed" by their condition. People have attempted to throw out diagnoses, but one cannot diagnose someone via media converage. Given his interpersonal connections and overall business success, I find it hard to believe that what some call mental illness is are more of negative personality traits.

    I'm not sure there is any glaring evidence to suggest he has dimensia. Trump is really the same flawed personality he was when he was a candidate. I hate to say it, but America knew exactly this is the type of President they could end up with in voting for him (though many thought he would rise to a presidential level).

    It also raises the question of Trump was to be required to have a psych evaluation and he "failed", would that make him ineligible to act as president, or could he still maintain the role of a treatment plan was put in place. Would psych evals be required for all elected government officials? What would be the effect on stigmatizing mental health more than it already is. Could DSM diagnosic criteria be changed in attempt to oust a president?

    This is a very ugly road to go down and frankly, next time buyer beware, America got exactly what they voted for.

    I know this is not what most on this forum would like to hear, but I think you would find most mental health professionals looking at Trump's behavior with an unbiased would reach the same conclusion. People love to say Trump has Narsisstic Perosonality Disorder, but even the psychiatrist who wrote the DSM-V section on NPD had to concede based on his observation, Trump does not fit the criteria. Anyone who has ever known true people with NPD and other Cluster B disorders would know this to be true. Narcisstic behavior does automatically mean NPD.
  5. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Oct 27, 2009
  6. jerwin macrumors 65816

    Jun 13, 2015
  7. SoggyCheese macrumors regular


    Nov 5, 2016
    Maybe UK, Maybe Spain, maybe even elsewhere
    I don't think anyone needs it confirmed at this point do they. We all see it, even if some are still in denial about what they're seeing.
  8. niploteksi macrumors regular

    Dec 11, 2016
    Even if that was tongue in cheek, I would have to disagree. One shouldn't stoop to Trump's level unless already being of the same type of character.

    The American people voted for him. If anyone should be declared incompetent or insane, look no further than his voter base. Better cross your fingers and hope the Russian angle actually works out, otherwise you'd better buckle up for a bumpy ride the next eight years :)
  9. jeyf macrumors 6502

    Jan 20, 2009
    guys; what if Trump is mentally ill? He is still our president

  10. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Oct 27, 2009
    8 Years???? Oh, HELL NO!!!!
  11. LizKat macrumors 68040


    Aug 5, 2004
    Catskill Mountains
    I wouldn't start the list with either one of those characters. To keep McCain on the right side of the sanity check ledgers, though, I do have to fantasize that McCain at least initially resisted picking Sarah Palin as his running mate in the 2008 campaign for prez. But then we might have known some kinda joker was gonna be put on the table later when McCain informally announced his candidacy on a late night comedy show (Letterman's). What a sly sense of humor.

    As for Pelosi and a sanity check, think how long she's been herding Democratic cats. Think of the stress and cut her some slack for survival skills. There are probably rafts of jokes about how many opinions two Democrats in a room together can generate on whether it will rain before lunchtime and which segments of the population are more deserving of free umbrellas. Now imagine opinions of a couple hundred Democrats. On each paragraph and sub paragraph in a House bill. The woman is a steely paragon of legislative sausage making, and admired for that by both sides of the aisle -- even if both would also love to see her retire.

    Anyone who's interested in an infrastructure bill actally getting past a presidential meltdown and out of Congress alive this year should be in Pelosi's corner. She's the one most likely to be able to get Trump to actually focus on trying to make it happen. She's who lambasted the Repubicans' budget conference report for stiffing infrastructure (among other things useful to ordinary people). Lots of Dems are up for infrastructure but as minority leader if she can get Trump on the same page then the GOP will listen -- since even the Republicans would probably like to be able to say they passed something in 2017 that was a plus for people who aren't bankers or mired in the oil and gas industry.

    No no we should stick to the thread topic when it comes to sanity checks: Mr. Trump.

    My vote would be that he's pretty much off his rocker sometimes but as long as it doesn't bother him or his family that he's likely to just lose it one of these days, it should really only be a matter of concern to
    James Mattis, H.R.McMaster, John Kelly, Rex Tillerson, Mike Pence, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and the White House Press secretary
    as to whether he's actually insane. And I daresay it has crossed their minds. I'd love to know that they've at least wondered if not decided how they would handle their respective pieces of the challenge if it seemed to any of them that they were suddenly called upon to do so.
  12. samcraig macrumors P6

    Jun 22, 2009
    I would start by not any deflecting. This issue right now is Trump. Evaluating him is a completely different matter than any single member of congress.
  13. AlliFlowers Contributor


    Jan 1, 2011
    L.A. (Lower Alabama)
    I don't believe he needs a psychiatrist. He needs a specialist in geriatrics. He is not mentally ill. He is suffering from dementia. Or more accurately, WE are suffering from his dementia.

  14. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Oct 27, 2009
    If you look up Narcissistic and Psychopath, Trump pretty much fits the definitions.
  15. samcraig macrumors P6

    Jun 22, 2009
    Pathological. But I think his lying isn't so much intentional. As I've noted before - I think he's just used to creating his own reality and having people bend to his will. He's lived in his Corporate bubble where if he said the sky is red, most people either ignore him or agree. He doesn't get that luxury as President.

    One of the things about his campaign that I never found to be a valid comment was one made by him and his base - that running the country is like running a business. It's not at all.
  16. TMRJIJ macrumors 68020


    Dec 12, 2011
    South Carolina, United States
    Agreed. Biden would lose his **** if he got re-elected.


    On another note, I don’t think anything is wrong with Trump. He does seem to be stupid and cares more about his image/money than the country. His voters are another story though.
  17. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mar 6, 2009
    What ever disorder he has he sure did manage to find a lot in common to vote for him
  18. zin macrumors 6502

    May 5, 2010
    United Kingdom
  19. Huntn macrumors G5


    May 5, 2008
    The Misty Mountains
    He appears to reside in the neighborhood of narcissist-sociopath, if not then an unstable, thin skinned, con man. How do you view this article?

    Donald Trump's malignant narcissism is toxic: Psychologist
    If you take President Trump’s words literally, you have no choice but to conclude that he is psychotic. A delusion is “a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.” Despite all evidence to the contrary, Trump asserts that his New York office was bugged by President Obama, and that his inauguration had the biggest crowd size in history. Before the election, Right Wing Watch published a list of 58 conspiracies proclaimed by Trump.

    Is it all for effect, to rile up his base, deflect blame and distract from his shortcomings, or does Trump really believe the insane things he says? It’s often hard to know, because as Harvard psychoanalyst Lance Dodes put it, Trump tells two kinds of lies: the ones he tells others to scam them, and those he tells himself. “He lies because of his sociopathic tendencies," Dodes said. "There's also the kind of lying he has that is in a way more serious, that he has a loose grip on reality." Is he crazy like a fox or just plain crazy? Not a question we want to be asking about our president.

    Much has been written about Trump having narcissistic personality disorder. As critics have pointed out, merely saying a leader is narcissistic is hardly disqualifying. But malignant narcissism is like a malignant tumor: toxic.

    Psychoanalyst and Holocaust survivor Erich Fromm, who invented the diagnosis of malignant narcissism, argues that it “lies on the borderline between sanity and insanity.” Otto Kernberg, a psychoanalyst specializing in borderline personalities, defined malignant narcissism as having four components: narcissism, paranoia, antisocial personality and sadism. Trump exhibits all four.

    His narcissism is evident in his “grandiose sense of self-importance … without commensurate achievements.” From viewing cable news, he knows "more about ISIS than the generals” and believes that among all human beings on the planet, “I alone can fix it.” His "repeated lying," “disregard for and violation of the rights of others” (Trump University fraud and multiple sexual assault allegations) and “lack of remorse” meet the clinical criteria for anti-social personality. His bizarre conspiracy theories, false sense of victimization, and demonization of the press, minorities and anyone who opposes him are textbook paranoia. Like most sadists, Trump has been a bully since childhood, and his thousands of vicious tweets make him perhaps the most prolific cyber bully in history.
  20. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

    Jan 28, 2009
    Yep and trump us the master of ceremony and the head clown.
  21. jeyf macrumors 6502

    Jan 20, 2009
  22. LizKat macrumors 68040


    Aug 5, 2004
    Catskill Mountains
    Well we and the planet are certainly suffering from his erratic style of being. His syntax is pretty alarming sometimes, rings some bells with me in re: a neighbor with advancing dementia whom I looked after for awhile during the period his kin were coming to terms with the fact he couldn't stay by himself any more. At least the neighbor was still charming when not speaking in tongues or forgetting to take the plastic off chicken he was defrosting in a skillet... :eek:

    Squint more. From your vantage point you can't see it's a memorial service for the GOP.

    That's the role that his family and Ryan and McConnell have allowed him to keep playing. It seems cruel to me that they allow this to go on. I mean leaving aside all consideration of Planet Earth!
  23. IronWaffle macrumors 6502


    Seems to me what's more irresponsible than diagnosing him from a distance is not diagnosing him at all.
  24. LizKat macrumors 68040


    Aug 5, 2004
    Catskill Mountains
    We are not sure what caused so many of us to vote for him, no matter how his followers or the GOP like to spin it. It's a mistake to assign reasons for the outcome of the 2016 presidential election. There were too many variables and that's after we get past the fact that people don't vote behind reasons. I may not have these in the order some would assign, but in the end, how can it matter....

    populism from both ends of spectrum. The year of the big F U to all establishments.

    terrible candidates. "Lock her up!" and "Deplorable-Magnet" [perhaps not my opinions]

    binary nature of social media. the sheer volume of partisan opinion.

    revulsion over dynastic inclinations of both DNC and RNC (the influence of Hollywood: sequels are good!).

    money money money from vested interests anxiously competing for the first time with massive grassroots contributions.

    Eight million bucks was spent in my CD of mostly rural counties just to pick a House member. I mean there are only 47k humans in my county.... if the 11 counties average out to that then they spent 15 bucks a head and way more than that per vote. We could have had a more than decent barbeque with a band behind that kind of money. But no, we bought a GOP hack trying to look blue now in his purple district so no one including him is happy with the outcome. Plus the progressives dropped 5 of that 8 mil even knowing they were going to have an uphill road with Trump's coattails here in the northern end of what some people don't realize is still Dixie Appalachia on some issues.

    inability of voters to focus on issues competing for oxygen in the presence of the real and perceived flaws of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

    celebrity culture / addiction to reality TV

    impaired judgment due to poverty and gaslighting by Fox News for lo these many decades

    impaired judgment due to dependence on alcohol and/or other drugs

    addiction to pizza -- the movitator of my votes: there's a pizza place in the village near the town sheds we have to vote in. I only go there on election days. My voting record is pure of heart and singular of purpose. i always turn out to vote for pizza.
  25. VulchR macrumors 68020


    Jun 8, 2009
    The bill is a stupid idea. We think we come so far combating stereotypes of neuropsychiatric disorders, and then somebody paints them with the Trump brush....
    --- Post Merged, Aug 20, 2017 ---
    My understanding is that most professional bodies regulating psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health care workers consider it highly unethical to diagnose somebody with whom there has been no professional contact, let alone discuss such a diagnosis in public ...

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