Trump recognizes Jerusalem as capital of Israel

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stylinexpat, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    #1
  2. Apple OC, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017

    Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Location:
    Hogtown
    #2
    Thought he was Putin's puppet?

    I'm thinking more along the lines he's nobody's puppet.
     
  3. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Location:
    Space--The ONLY Frontier
    #3
    I know who's puppet he is but you would just laugh so I'll leave the guesswork up to you.
     
  4. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #4
    Translation: does not take advice and counsel well.

    This decision, if Trump goes through with it and announces it tomorrow, is going to throw a big monkey wrench in the peace plan project his son-in-law and special envoy are working on

    Just another example of how incoherent Trump's governance really is. Stirs a pot and walks away, figuring someone will clean up the mess and in the meantime imagine all the press clips he'll have the next day, hallelujah, a veritable bonanza!

    This time he screws up a family member's assigned project, too, besides messing with the minds of every Arab and Jew in the Middle East plus some large fraction of American Jewry, not all of whom see the Jerusalem issue the same way. Nice work, Donnie. And it's only Tuesday night. What else does he have in mind for us this week?
     
  5. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #5
    It will be the end of any US led peace process. This is just another example of how Trump is pulling the US out of the international order we set up after WWII to prevent another world war.
     
  6. Zwopple macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    #6
    He's a bully and likes to show it.
     
  7. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #7
    Puppetry discussion aside, this is a terrible move. It's not as if the peace effort was working so well, but there's no reason to send everything a step backwards and sparking new violence. But this doesn't surprise me at all, coming from Trump. Jerusalem's status has to be settled in agreements between Israelis and Palestinians. It's a disputed city.
     
  8. Solomani, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017

    Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Location:
    Alberto, Canado
    #8
    The idiot POTUS just gifted Iran an early Christmas present.

    Before this, the last time USA gave Iran a nice gift was when George Dubya Bush handed over Iraq to mutate into the Iranian shiite vassal-state that it is today.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #9
    Putin didn’t want immediate effective action on climate change. That’s something Hilary would have been good at as on the environment she is very liberal and shes practical too.
     
  10. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #10
    Particularly when he might be feeling a little cornered on other issues. The Roy Moore candidacy for Senate in Alabama has to be really uncomfortable for him. He has come out for Moore now like "well my endorsing Moore is my job, he's Republican, I'm Republican, we want Republicans in the Senate" but he's concerned that he might have to go to court soon on one of his own harassment charges. Somehow maybe he thinks that aggressivly endorsing Moore signals he's confident that there's no there there for Moore, "and so" also no there there for him either, regarding inappropriate sexual behavior.

    With the Jerusalem matter, I think it's another instance of getting upset by a Mueller reveal --Flynn's plea, say-- and then frantically trying to divert from that by doing something he figures will shore up some segment of his political support for another day, two weeks, a month... this time it's an appeal to American Jews who voted for him, and who may have grown pretty skeptical of his meager legislative record at this point, but who might approve of the change on Jerusalem policy. Thing is, American Jews are divided on that subject... so I don't know that he's helping himself here. He certainly will have lit a match in the ME.
     
  11. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #11
    Can Trump just announce the change of a capital on his own. Seems a little out of his jurisdiction.
     
  12. yaxomoxay, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #12
    You nailed it, newspapers like to word things in a way that sells by igniting fire.
    It’s the recognition by the US government that Jerusalem has the status of Capital of Israel (which is what Jerusalem is for Israel) and has international recognition status (in the eyes of the US).
    A strong political statement, in my eyes a good one.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 5, 2017 ---
    Israel is a sovereign country.
    Israel is recognized internationally.
    Israel is recognized by the UN.

    It’s up to Israel to decide where its own capital resides. The fact that it wasn’t recognized as such is the result of the typical European-American centrism.

    Also please realize that contrary to other instances, Trump’s decision does NOT draw the boundaries of the capital.
     
  13. Macky-Mac, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017

    Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    #13
    Ooh well, of course the Israelis actually changed their capital some time ago, but it seems that back in 1995 Congress authorized moving the US embassy to Jerusalem....apparently they actually required that it be moved...unless the president signs a "national security" waiver valid for six months which allows it to stay in Tel Aviv, and so ever since, every six months the president has signed such a waiver.

    Congress can get feisty at times

    I don't think it's clear that Kushner isn't, or wont be, onboard with moving the US embassy.....IIRC before the election he was in agreement with the idea
     
  14. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #14
    Two outcomes:

    a) Muslim world in that region has a tizzy and we're going to see a lot of extremist behavior in the near future. Which is something this administration may want to see at the risk of losing Israeli or other western-aligned lives. Which would cement the "travel" ban.

    b) Muslim world releases scathing criticism, but does nothing actionable apart from that. Showing restraint.


    All apart of Kushner's grand plans to achieve Middle East peace.
     
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #16
    Lol @ b.
     
  16. MachCrit Suspended

    MachCrit

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lurking About the Planet
    #17
    Actually, it was important precisely to send a message to entities that want to destroy a democracy with full rights for women, gays and yes, Muslims in the Middle East. Feminists and human rights advocates should be elated.
     
  17. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #18

    This is just what Putin wants. Blow up the ME and oil prices rise.
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #19
    They roughly produce the same oil we do. I think that higher oil prices would work good for the US too
     
  19. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #20

    Yeah, but we're not under sanctions and hurting financially like Russia is.
     
  20. poloponies Suspended

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    #21
    Boy, have you got it wrong. This plays directly to his Christian Right base.
     
  21. MachCrit Suspended

    MachCrit

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lurking About the Planet
    #22
    Why would the Middle East blow up? Are you saying that Islam isn't are peaceful religion that would react violently to a symbolic gesture that the last three US Presidents, including Obama, all advocated?
     
  22. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #23
    If Kushner and the special envoy haven't learned anything from anyone while working up a "peace plan" then he and the special envoy are not the people to be working that project. There is precisely no one who would have said the path to peace -- PEACE-- involves informing the Palestinians that the matter of Jerusalem is resolved already...

    There's only one message here, one send, one way it will be received by non-Jewish residents of the Middle East. "Forget about Jersualem, it belongs to Israel." The USA does not have the right to send that message.

    The status of Jerusalem has long been recognized as a key issue on the table for an enduring Israeli-Palestinian agreement. An item to be deferred while other issues, thorny but not as thorny, are negotiated to conclusion.

    If that's even possible any more, then even so, the USA as of the moment of Trump's announcement is certainly no longer able to act as an honest broker.

    Anyway while status of Jerusalem has been left on the table, a two-state solution has still been seen as possible (despite the ongoing expansion of the illegal settlements) and it has still been at least possible that corpus separatum --Jerusalem not divided but set aside as an international entity-- could end up seen as a reasonable position for all parties. This announcement would not advance that possibility.

    It will be seen by the left in Israel as the USA taking Israel's right wing position, and it will be seen by most if not all other non-Jewish players in the region as being inflammatory and anti-Muslim, not just anti-Palestinian. It butts heads with the position of the EU and our allies singly as well. Not even Russia has suggested that Jerusalem end up solely in Israeli territory.

    It's not like residents of the Middle East (and their governments and religious leaders) don't read newspapers and don't understand where Donald Trump has been coming from all along regarding Muslims. In short, it's a gigantic pot stir, period. I would have expected no less from a Donald Trump.
     
  23. MachCrit Suspended

    MachCrit

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lurking About the Planet
    #24
    Please Liz. You are referencing (advocating placating) "non-Jewish players" in the region who will only be satisfied with the destruction of democratic Israel. This says "no", and it is about time that message was bolstered.

    Obama called for this, and was too weak to do anything about it, which is why he is whining now. It hurts his legacy even more.
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #25
    This is not how you go about making peace in the region. It's top of the list for inflaming people. It's destructive, not "disruptive"...
     

Share This Page