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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ericgtr12, Dec 6, 2018.
I give you the party of fiscal responsibility.
last guy added 9 trillion to the debt...................... and per your own post it would be at the END of his SECOND term, plenty of things can happen till then.
Not to defect with whataboutism, but... since when has the political class ever really cared about the debt/deficit?
democrats only care when republicans are raising the debt
republicans only care when democrats are raising the debt.
republicans USED to be the "fiscal conservatives", all that went away when Bush jr started spending like a moron, congress got used to spending like idiots and we are all going to pay for it
1. Trumps far from a fiscal conservative. 2. Congress writes the budget. 3. Don't be surprised if said quote is refuted. 4. No **** our debt rises when we live in a country where handouts=votes. Look at IL if you want a micro level insight on how that works out.
Taxes are part of living in a civilized society, but there needs to be a MASSIVE combing through on spending. People want UHC/Medicare for all. Well one of the cornerstones to such a program is cost vs. benefit because if you don't have those conversations then **** spirals out of control pretty fast.
I would move the blame back to Bush senior, you know, the one the MSM is fawning over all this week. We should have had our peace dividend with the ending of the cold war. Instead Bush obeyed his masters and invented new reasons to keep the military industrial complex in the manor to which it has become accustomed.
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I am really sick of this myth being repeated as a well known fact. The State does not give us civilization, it only destroys it.
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Say it ain't so! Say it!!
No, the citizens give us civilization or in some cases a lack there of. If you have another way to pay for roads, bridges, the police and fire departments I'm all ears.
Just imagine the Soviet citizens standing in line for bread. "good thing the State provides us with bread. There's no way the free market could figure out how to produce and get people to pay for it, we'd all starve"!
Imagine if the state didn't provide clean water. It goes both ways, there are degrees in everything, it's not either or.
Unless you're in Michigan. Most of the time the State regulators get captured by big business and get loopholes to pollute. You're telling me the free market would have no incentive or technical means to provide clean water?
I tend to see this from both sides. Yes, we need taxes but we also need oversight and that's sorely lacking IMO. In CA the Dems won't even allow a vote for oversight of the DMV to take place and yet approved spending millions more for more lazy ass employees, ridiculous on any level. Anyone whose spent 6 or more hours in a the DMV while watching their workers surf, eat and take huge breaks knows exactly what I'm talking about. No private sector job would ever put up with that.
You act like the free market has never screwed the average citizen with their pants on? "Only the government is capable and willing to do that." Would they have incentive, yes if they were allowed to triple everyone's water bill they would. Do they have the means, no doubt but they wouldn't bother unless the incentive is substantial.
If you need an example look no further than net neutrality.
Presidents after World War Two up to Carter did.
I can see this from Trump’s point of view. Why worry about a debt that is not yours to begin with when he himself filed for bankruptcy on his own debts. America was in debt before Trump went into office and when he leaves office it will still be in debt. Not only that but even after Trump dies America will still be in debt. Debt is something America will always be in. Debt issues will never change which is why the printing machines never stop printing money in America. This has been like this for quite some time now regardless of who is President.
No I don't, there are plenty of examples of private criminals. There are always publicly decried and there's even a chance the guilty get punished. When the State commits crimes, there's plenty of apologists making excuses - especially for the most egregious examples of the State such as socialism.
As for your water bill, again, the free market can prove an A12 chip, but can't figure out how to create a market for drinking water?
Also, please tell me how anything of substance has changed with the loss of crony internet providers, sorry, net neutrality?
Ok there's a difference between debt and deficit. Debt is the water in the bucket, deficit is the water you're adding to the bucket.
Using $ terms isn't the greatest measure of a nation's debt. One that factors in ability to pay and factors out interest is better... like the debt to gdp ratio. You also generally want this to be a downward trending ratio.
This is pretty bad by pretty much every standard. Again I ask the question if a first world country has to keep borrowing more money for it's standard of living... is it really a first world country?
The belt tightening coming to some big western nations is going to be rough... the presidential/congressional passing of the buck on this will end in political suicide or national crisis.
So let me get this straight, you believe the state providing ANYTHING is socialism? Roads, street lights, clean water, sewer lines from your house, etc?
Yes, the free market can provide an A12 chip, now go look at the cost of the current iPhones. No, that's EXACTLY what we need for every basic human need. A cell phone is a luxury, my **** flowing away from my house and clean water coming out of my shower head is a necessity. The free market created a market for drinking water, it's called bottled water. That doesn't mean I trust Avian to do the right thing and not gouge the **** out of me when they take over what comes out of my faucets. The cost of regulatory compliance, leasing the land, permits to pump it out of a lake will no doubt get passed down to the consumer.
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This thing will flat out bottom out before anyone enacts austerity measures. You don't get elected in this country by telling people what the government is no longer going to pay for, even if it affects 3,000 people, said politician is a "monster". So we kick the can down the road. Look no further than how we've handled SS and Medicare and that mentality has pervaded the decision with every dollar the government spends. First guy to make substantial cuts to defense better pray to god we don't see another building collapse in NY from an airplane or all hell doesn't break loose when Russia breaks off another piece of Ukraine because his/her decision to weaken our military will haunt them come reelection time.
That's pretty much the philosophy of his whole generation. They complain how the youth are so spoiled and lazy yet they are the ones that created the mess we're in and now that it's time to fix it they just shrug because they'll be dead. They had their good life with a house and job and food on the table since they were 18 and god forbid they have to make a little sacrifice now. And that applies to everything, taxes, job market, healthcare, environment, housing, college expenses, you name it. F them all.
Right. And, I've read repeated comments from Trump that implies he doesn't understand the difference between debt and deficit.
One note about Obama's spending. Yes, it was prolific, but he spent money—including the Bush-era TARP—in an attempt to blunt an economic free-fall, and was spending money on two wars—both Bush-era adventures—just as tax revenues collapsed.
So, yeah, of course, the debt went up. The important question is why is the debt to GDP ratio increasing? Because once again the GOP has passed another unfunded mandate, and that's hammering the Treasury.
It's worth noting that Bush not only started two wars at a cost of $2.4 trillion by 2017, but he also created Medicare Part D, a program that cost $94 billion in 2017 alone. At the same time, Bush led the charge to lower taxes in 2001 and 2003, but an analysis of the cuts shows that they cost the U.S. Treasury up to $5.6 trillion in deficits from 2001 to 2018.[/QUOTE]
Also there’s no such thing as the free market and I’m really tired of people using that myth as an excuse or defense. They act like all of capitalism and our economy is as simple as competitor food samples being handed out at Costco and you just pick which tastes better to you.
I question any generation where almost half would rather give up sex than Amazon for a year. Today's priorities are SEVERELY out of whack.
Meh. That study is from the Max Borges Agency, based according to them on "Survey data was collected from May 30 – June 14, 2018, whereby 1,108 U.S. millennial consumers that purchased consumer technology products on Amazon in the past year were surveyed."
In other words, millennials who purchase tech products on Amazon choose Amazon over sex.
Which doesn't tell you about the generation, but rather a self-selecting part of that generation.
And, that's assuming a marketing company didn't screw up their methodology.
Did you read my words, or just what you want to read into my words? Believing services should be provided by the State is Statism. Socialism is an extreme example of Statism.
I get that you can't wrap your head around the free market providing water, sewage, electricity, food, etc., but they have in the past, and can in the future with much better costs. Lower costs come from free market investment in capital equipment and processes that bring material wealth to the masses. Just look to the extreme cases of the State (N. Korea, Venezuela) to see what the State does to us.