Trump says he is sending federal help to fight Chicago crime

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-sending-federal-help-fight-chicago-crime-112448671.html
    work opportunities & better education would go a long way in curbing crime.
     
  2. jerwin macrumors 68000

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  3. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
    perhaps in the right hands instead of the hands of criminals ;)
     
  4. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Chicago's not even among the top 15 most dangerous US cities. In fact, D.C. is far worse. Maybe he should send federal help to D.C.
     
  5. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #5
    Those 20 additional ATF agents would be put to better use in the NFA division signing off on forms.
     
  6. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #6
    hand out CCW's to those qualified like it's candy :D
     
  7. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #7
    Six incidents of CCL carriers shooting a thief in the city, two more in other parts of Cook County, all in the last three years. No charges for any of the CCL holders.
     
  8. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #8
    It depends how you look at danger. A lot of places look at murder rate (murders/100,000). Detroit and St. Louis has the highest murder rate in the country. Chicago is further down on the list of murder rates. But Chicago has 2.7m people whereas Detroit has about 800k and St. Louis 320k.

    I'm not going to do out all the math but it seems like Chicago probably has one of the highest number of murders. In terms of allocating resources to one city to stop the most murders, Chicago would probably be a good choice.

    But you might also factor in violent crimes too
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    Link

    I sure hope this was the case, because when Trump says he is sending in feds, that makes me very uneasy.
     
  10. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #10
  11. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #11
    Yeah me too. It's somewhat of a relief that apparently this idea was in the works last summer. What got me about that link you cited was near the wrap:

    The White House on Friday pushed back against the notion that Chicago's murder problem has to do with easy access to guns.

    "I think that crime is probably driven more by morality than anything else," said White House deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sander
    s.
    Seriously, morality? How about lethal impulsivity enabled by having a loaded weapon in hand while setting about doing whatever's on the agenda at the moment. Run into problem, fire gun, problem maybe solved or made worse, either way it's clear that guns get fired with depressing, fatal regularity.

    Morality? Morality, or lack of it, is surely a factor, but it's about winking at how easy it still is to get illegal guns into Chicago or any place else there's demand expressed by those unable to qualify for legal purchase. I hope the ATF can help clean up the mess but without addressing the illegal supplier issue we might as well be watching a shipment of soldiers into Afghanistan... they'll do a tour of duty and hopefully come home alive. Best one can probably hope for.
     
  12. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    #12
    You mean like Arkansas(a conceal carry state), which just had 25 people shot in a nightclub?
     
  13. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #13
    Night clubs are gun free zones.
     
  14. HEK Suspended

    HEK

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    #14
    What a joke. Until he saw it on the cable news, the Donald didn't even know about it. This lier will take credit for anything. Just the other day, he looked away from his cell phone and into toilet bowl......thought to himself look what I did. :oops: Sent message to Spicer/Sanders.......I just made some more crap you can report on at next briefing....no cameras allowed.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 2, 2017 ---
    25 shot and no fatalities.......more training needed.
     
  15. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #15
    Come on Liz. These people are not on their way to the library for book study when they are suddenly in a shootout. That "agenda" they have at the moment usually involves gangs or drugs. We're talking about a place where standing on the wrong corner wearing the wrong color will get you killed. Morality and culture are huge factors here. As far as the illegal guns...harsher penalties for those in possession and much harsher penalties for suppliers.
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Who said anything about the agenda being going to the library? Sure I'm on record as saying it can in fact be easier to lay hands on "a gun" than "a book", metaphorically speaking. but I didn't reference any trips to a library in that post.

    All I said was "whatever's on the agenda at the moment." And yeah, that agenda can be standing on the corner waiting for instructions, waiting for a drug supplier's re-up, watching girls, waiting for Godot...

    I certainly agree about enforcement of law on gun sales and for harsh penalties on illegal sellers. If they brought the guns across state lines especially.

    For possession,,,, the righties have made some headway with me on that one. I say take it case by case. I understand the need for self defense in crime ridden, gang-infested areas. I also understand it's difficult if not impossible for some people in need of self defensive weaponry to acquire it legally. So I dunno. Make the bust and let's hear the argument. I'd insist on getting the person a public defender who will defend a person's right to stay alive in a terrible neighborhood.

    I'm very tired of people posting from gated suburban communities on computers paid for by their parents about the morality of a slum dweller's decision to purchase or use a gun. And I do not suggest that you're posting from that standpoint, not by any means. I'm just venting.

    In general, I'm not a fan of gun ownership by civilians to begin with, short of for hunting or self defense in areas where there's little to no LE available.

    But I'm particularly annoyed when some gun owner from a wealthier area starts up about the morality of gun acquisition or ownership by people trapped in impoverished, crime-ridden neighborhoods. It speaks to elitism of the worst sort. It's saying the 2A belongs to the law abiding citizen in the right zipcode because their culture understands and practices the morality of proper ownership and use of a gun. That's a crock.

    Again, I don't suppose you to be making such an assertion from that standpoint. But, if you are, then the shoe fits, so I would hope it pinched your conscience if not your toes...

    Maybe a gun is not the answer for an urban neighborhood. When there's a cop on every other corner and we know his name and he knows ours like back in the 60s, and when our communications are courteous and casual as back then, well great, wake me up from my reverie or your time travel. But here and now, in a crime-infested gang-ridden area, I don't believe that every time a gun is either acquired or even utilized, "morality" is at stake.

    OK so let's say I put myself for a moment into some pretty gritty south side Chicago neighborhood on a Wednesday evening. I'm standing on the corner waiting for my kid sister to get out of her choir practice. If someone shoots at me and I have a gun then I'm going to shoot back because I can. I have a gun too. Was it moral for me to buy it? I don't know. Was it moral for me to use it? Probably. Legal? Not to own it, maybe to use it. Maybe. Risky? Sure. I coud be charged with attempted or actual homicide. At the very least I'd be up on the gun charge. But, I'd still be alive. Maybe. How much time did I spend contemplating all that before I responded in kind to getting shot at? Zero seconds. Shoot at me, I shoot at you if I can manage it. I will have used the gun impulsively, reflexively, meaning to stay alive and deter further attack.

    So the morality in this hypothetical was back around the time I had decided to own a weapon for self defense and proceeded to buy an illegal weapon. "Thou shalt not buy a weapon without a background check and permit". It's a law, not a religious commandment. You want to talk about my culture? I'm an American living in an impoverished, gang-ridden urban American neighborhood.

    Your call. I don't know. Nobody knows any more. We're awash with guns and yet most of us are not criminals, and we do not all choose to live where we live, even if those places are dangerous as hell thanks to the gang bangers and recividists ready to prey on us and convert our children to their gofers and eventual peers.

    But we got billion dollar campaign chests for politicians who can solve all our problems if we just re-elect them. Some of them are said to want to take our guns away and some are said to wink and nod at anyone's ownership of a weapon. Pick yer poison, none of them is getting the job done yet to get Chicago's murder rate down. We'll see how this latest plan works out. Pray for the ATF guys. I won't say there aren't immoral gunslingers amongst those gang bangers.
     
  17. darksithpro macrumors regular

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    #17
    Even when Trump does good by sending in help, people still bash him. Something has to be done to stop the gang violence and murder. Obama who is from Chicago and his Mayor buddy certainly haven't done much to stop it. Time for team Trump to go in there and fix the mess Obama and Rahm never bothered to fix.
     
  18. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #18
    Ahem, the team going in is going in under a plan that was created while Obama was in office..
     
  19. darksithpro macrumors regular

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    #19

    Yes, but he's increasing the number of agents.
     
  20. mrkramer macrumors 603

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    Shh... you wouldn't want to spoil it for them by letting them know that their god Trump happened to be following through on the evil Obama's plans.
     
  21. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #21
    I have tried to make this point and it falls on deaf ears. Unlike St. Louis and Detroit, Chicago has affluent areas within the city limits. So their rate is lower than Detroit or St. Louis where the affluent areas are not within the city limits, but in incorporated suburbs. I have tried to point out when you use the MSA data, Chicago is right up with with them.
     
  22. jjk454ss macrumors 601

    jjk454ss

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    #22
    But he didn't actually do it. He made the problem worse instead.
     
  23. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #23
    Proof is in the pudding, isn't it... I hope the ATF guys will stay safe and can help alleviate the problem.
     
  24. mrkramer macrumors 603

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    #24
    What actual actions did Obama take to make the problem worse?
     
  25. jjk454ss macrumors 601

    jjk454ss

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    #25
    One big example would be not prosecuting gun crimes
     

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