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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Jan 24, 2018.
MAGA crowd will love this.
This is actually huge if true. A path to citizenship is something a large bloc of the GOP outright hate, but the reality is these young DACA immigrants are as much American as me or you and know no other way of life or language to boot at no fault of their own.
Unfortunately I believe it'll have border wall funding attached, the crux for me there is Trump promised Mexico would pay for it and I still think it's a waste of money. If the DHS needs more funding for some limited fencing/walling and border security that is fine but lets not waste billions on a concrete wall that will likely do didly squat..
Yeah they’ll be absolutely thrilled lol.
But honestly, any reasonable person had to believe that any immigration reform would look something like this. You can’t just kick the dreamers out.
Immigration is the only thing that could make the MAGA crowd part with Trump. But maybe he doesn’t care. Maybe he’s sick of polling in the 30s. He’ll drop these people like a rock if he thinks it’s good for him.
I somewhat admire his loyalty, but he’s siding with people who will be on the wrong side of history. Maybe he’s starting to realize that.
If Trump doesn’t change his mind again they will all pretend that they have always been for this. Trump could say that he is for 100% open borders with no customs checks or security of any kind and his core supporters would change their views to be for it and claim that they had been for it all along.
Get out the popcorn.
Eff it. Open the borders and welcome all!!!!!
Woman's Shocking Detainment Is Drawing Comparisons To Crackdowns In Nazi Germany
Hilarious. Flipper needs to simmer down and get with the point and ride that point. Not flip like a seal walrus wanting a sardine.
The better analysis is that Trump doesn't think. He just says whatever pops into his head at the moment without any filter. Immigration will be like the wall. He means this, but says that. This was a metaphor. He never changed his view, people didn't understand when he said that. Rinse. Repeat.
An even better analysis is he doesn't have a grasp of the issues.
Odd, and alarming, given that in the US we are not required to have any form of ID when not driving...
In any case, a legal pathway to citizenship makes sense and I am sure it would receive a lot of support. I think it would be a self-defeating and immoral mistake to stop future immigration, but the first priority has to be the DACA people. I just hope the GOP don't hold the DACA people hostage to some lame wall, which will just cause illegal immigration to switch to airports, tunnels, or boats.
Why does everyone think that Republicans are against immigration? I have spoken to many of my hard line Republican friends and they tell me just the opposite. They are all for immigration but want to have a better set of rules in play and if the rules are violated, they simply want them enforced. One of my friends was all for some sort of amnesty provided that there were limitations and again, if the rules are broke, they are enforced.
I think that many of you are missing the point I am seeing. They aren't against people coming to the country, they just want it done right and if you come here wrong way, you are sent home until you can do it the right way.
What is so wrong with this?
From what I am seen, many of the Democrats want to admit people circumventing the entire process.
This is meaningless. He told “Chuck and Nancy” last September that he’d agree to some sort of permanent DACA fix, and then reneged. Then he told Feinstein, on national TV, that he’d agree to it and then immediately reneged when prodded by McCarthy. Then he told Durban on the phone that he’d agree to it, and then reneged. Then he told Schumer that he’d agree to it, and then reneged. He doesn’t set policy for his administration. His staff does.
Are you talking about congress (Rs and Ds) or voters. Because I wouldn't make blanket statements about voters. I do think that most representatives are pretty hardlined. Party politics and all.
The obstacle, really, is the process itself -- that it's much more difficult, restrictive, and time-consuming than many people understand.
In your post alone, you say that Republican hardliners want a better set of rules -- and also say that Democrats (hardliners, too?) want to circumvent the process. What that says to me is, nobody on either side is happy with the process.
So, yes, the process itself needs to be changed, and most people, it seems, would be fine with a path to citizenship for DACA recipients. The irritating thing is, these recipients have been planning their long-term futures like any other citizen, but are having to put ALL their plans on hold -- go to college? change jobs? buy a house? raise a family? -- until some bureaucrats on the other side of the country decide what to write on some sheets of paper.
The divide, I think is about what to do with them in the meantime. One side says to kick them out, the other side says to let them hang on and wait. But both sides say that the law can be changed.
Further - the DACA issue should not be tied to anything for leverage by either party. Certainly not if either party is going to claim they love dreamers and want to make sure they are taken care of.
I'm talking voters... Maybe I just misunderstood. That being said, my day is over and I am tired.
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Totally agree that the path is convoluted. My only problem with DACA recipients is that they knew they had to get paperwork filed. In fact, they applied for an extension what is what DACA gave them. How many have filed and do tehy ever plan on getting it done or are they hoping the government will wave a magic wand to simply let them in? Sadly I don't share the poor little ol' me bit and I don't blame our government one bit. Their parents brought them over and failed them, not the USA. Responsibility for them falls squarely on their shoulders and when they came of age, they should have done whatever it took to become legal if they wanted to stay. This thing where we divert blame to our government is crazy. I can assure you they knew what they needed to do.
--- Post Merged, Jan 25, 2018 ---
This is great - you should see about getting the above put on The Statue of Liberty....
And how many of these friends of yours could even speak to the current process of doing it "the right way"?
I've found in my experience that most people railing against the immigration system haven't even bothered to learn what it is and instead immediately jump to nonsense about taking jobs and being a "burden" on the system (which is laughable given that undocumented people pay taxes they'll never receive benefits from).
Not to mention the extortionist fees people that are required to check in yearly have to pay. It's nearly $500 associated with a form and biometric logging (fingerprints)...which never change so they're just being milked for money. That's a predatory act.
I don't remember seeing DACA up there?
So, what do you think immigration should be? It is easy to make a snarky retort, how about putting up some details on what you think?
--- Post Merged, Jan 25, 2018 ---
Actually a few who have married foreigners. Oh, and I never said that they didn't say it didn't need to be reformed. Hell, Obama had 8 years and could of tackled that but left it a mess. I agree that it is a total nightmare of a system and I have navigated it, so I am well aware. I have already stated my stance on that. It needs to be fixed BEFORE we start just granting citizenship. Just waving it for DACA isn't fair to those who have paid and are waiting while following the rules. Wouldn't you agree to that?
DACA wasn't so much an extension as it was a recognition that there had been no path for these kids to gain citizenship. There were (are?) no forms to fill out, no boxes to check, that reflect their situation properly.
I still think it's crappy that a line between accepted and denied had to be drawn based on someone's age, but I guess that's just how rules work.
So tell me how long it took you to be granted US citizenship. Tell us how long it's taken your friends, even if they've done it completely legally.
I see this, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Immigration itself is not an easy topic and has no easy answer. Read my comment above. DACA is a separate issue and should be handled as such. These people should not be used as political pawns.
Obama had eight years of a "just-say-NObama" congress (brief stint of Dem majority aside).