Trump starts trade war with... Canada?

jpietrzak8

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I didn't see this move coming. Trump has just imposed a 20% tariff on Canadian softwood lumber. It seems he isn't stopping there, either; here's a tweet he just sent out:

Canada has made business for our dairy farmers in Wisconsin and other border states very difficult. We will not stand for this. Watch!​

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/856847826663460865?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Really? Canada is the very first state that Trump initiates a trade war with? He's backing off his Mexican wall; he's making nice with China (and no longer calling them currency manipulators); but he's gung-ho to start fighting Canada right away.

I'm sure glad that Trump has his priorities straight. :p
 

ibookg409

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I didn't see this move coming. Trump has just imposed a 20% tariff on Canadian softwood lumber. It seems he isn't stopping there, either; here's a tweet he just sent out:

Canada has made business for our dairy farmers in Wisconsin and other border states very difficult. We will not stand for this. Watch!​

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/856847826663460865?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Really? Canada is the very first state that Trump initiates a trade war with? He's backing off his Mexican wall; he's making nice with China (and no longer calling them currency manipulators); but he's gung-ho to start fighting Canada right away.

I'm sure glad that Trump has his priorities straight. :p
Why do you call what he is doing as a "Trade War"? Does't Canada place tariffs on our goods going into Canada?
[doublepost=1493125093][/doublepost]Here is an article from 2013 that you may find interesting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/tariffs-are-the-hidden-hand-behind-us-canada-price-gap/article8412498/
 

oneMadRssn

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Why do you call what he is doing as a "Trade War"? Does't Canada place tariffs on our goods going into Canada?
"Trade war" means an escalation in trade regulations designed to hurt foreign competition. That is exactly what is occurring.

To be fair, Canada fired the first shot by making Canadian milk less expensive for everyone, which in theory hurts American milk producers. But it's good news for family's that like milk as it lowers the price of milk.

Trust responds by raising the price of Canadian lumber for Americans, which in theory hurts Canadian lumber companies. But it's bad news for people that want to build or repair their homes as it increases the price of lumber.

So technically Canada started it, but Trump's response is characteristically idiotic.
 

ibookg409

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Trump isn't starting a trade war. He is attempting top level the field. Canada already places tariffs on American goods.
[doublepost=1493125414][/doublepost]
So technically Canada started it, but Trump's response is characteristically idiotic.
I don't think it's idiotic at all, but keep letting your hate for Trump cloud your view of the world. Why see things the way they are when you can look at the world through hate colored glasses, right? :rolleyes:
 
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jpietrzak8

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Why do you call what he is doing as a "Trade War"? Does't Canada place tariffs on our goods going into Canada?
Trump's action is a purely punitive measure, not designed to be used for correcting an economic imbalance, but rather to hurt the Canadian government in such a way as to cause it to change its policies. So yes, Trump is initiating a fight with Canada.
[doublepost=1493125623][/doublepost]
Trump isn't starting a trade war. He is attempting top level the field. Canada already places tariffs on American goods.
BTW, there are more direct legal methods to stop Canada if they are engaging in unfair practices, as they are a signatory to NAFTA. The whole point of the NAFTA treaty is to support free trade. I guess Trump can't deal with that, though...
 

ibookg409

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Trump's action is a purely punitive measure, not designed to be used for correcting an economic imbalance, but rather to hurt the Canadian government in such a way as to cause it to change its policies. So yes, Trump is initiating a fight with Canada.
[doublepost=1493125623][/doublepost]

BTW, there are more direct legal methods to stop Canada if they are engaging in unfair practices, as they are a signatory to NAFTA. The whole point of the NAFTA treaty is to support free trade. I guess Trump can't deal with that, though...
If the point of NAFTA is to support free trade then why is Canada not engaging in free trade? Canada is not going to stop unfair trade practices just because the US asks them to do so.
 

NT1440

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If the point of NAFTA is to support free trade then why is Canada not engaging in free trade? Canada is not going to stop unfair trade practices just because the US asks them to do so.
....they would if the US actually invoked the arbitration panel of NAFTA, you know, using the ****ing thing instead of just working outside the framework.:rolleyes:
 

ibookg409

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....they would if the US actually invoked the arbitration panel of NAFTA, you know, using the ****ing thing instead of just working outside the framework.:rolleyes:
And how many years of continued butt rape would the US have to endure while that process played itself out?
 

NT1440

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And how many years of continued butt rape would the US have to endure while that process played itself out?
None, because this isn't an actual issue. It's a "hey look over here" tactic.

Let's stop pretending that the USA, THE USA OF ALL PLACES, is the wimpy kid always getting picked on, it's ****ing absurd.
 
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ibookg409

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None, because this isn't an actual issue. It's a "hey look over here" tactic.

Let's stop pretending that the USA, THE USA OF ALL PLACES, is the wimpy kid always getting picked on, it's ****ing absurd.
Just because we are strong doesn't mean we should tolerate unfair practices that don't help the American people. That would be ****ing absurd.
 

NT1440

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Just because we are strong doesn't mean we should tolerate unfair practices that don't help the American people. That would be ****ing absurd.
I'm suuuuuuure that this isn't a ploy to boost the profits of Trump's contracting buddies. I mean, we've been hearing for years and years at how unfair the Canadian timber trade is towards America :rolleyes:
 

steve knight

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Trump isn't starting a trade war. He is attempting top level the field. Canada already places tariffs on American goods.
[doublepost=1493125414][/doublepost]
I don't think it's idiotic at all, but keep letting your hate for Trump cloud your view of the world. Why see things the way they are when you can look at the world through hate colored glasses, right? :rolleyes:
Well he may have learned that from you. But sometimes your glasses have a clean spot.
 

ibookg409

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I'm suuuuuuure that this isn't a ploy to boost the profits of Trump's contracting buddies. I mean, we've been hearing for years and years at how unfair the Canadian timber trade is towards America :rolleyes:
Well how about you get some facts to back that up BEFORE you make up your mind. Look at how Dianne Fieinstien steered government contracts to her husbands company (or it may have been Babs Boxer). Either way there is a KNOWN issues of using power for personal gain. Here you are just BLINDLY speculating about Trumps interests but treating it as fact. Be better than that.
[doublepost=1493128480][/doublepost]
Well he may have learned that from you. But sometimes your glasses have a clean spot.
I'm probably the least hateful man you'll ever have the pleasure to meet Stevie.
 

NT1440

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Well how about you get some facts to back that up BEFORE you make up your mind. Look at how Dianne Fieinstien steered government contracts to her husbands company (or it may have been Babs Boxer). Either way there is a KNOWN issues of using power for personal gain. Here you are just BLINDLY speculating about Trumps interests but treating it as fact. Be better than that.
[doublepost=1493128480][/doublepost]
I'm not treating it as fact, it's my opinion, purely. Frankly I don't give a damn about this topic because it reeks of distraction from the fact that he can't do 90% of the pure nonsense he spouted on trade in the campaign.

The fact of the matter is that we have processes to address the alleged problem here, and rather than using them Trump is just flailing around.
 

oneMadRssn

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Trump isn't starting a trade war. He is attempting top level the field. Canada already places tariffs on American goods.
[doublepost=1493125414][/doublepost]
I don't think it's idiotic at all, but keep letting your hate for Trump cloud your view of the world. Why see things the way they are when you can look at the world through hate colored glasses, right? :rolleyes:
Want to see things the way they are? Make a checklist and tally up the interests:

Canada's milk policy change is:
Good for American citizens (cheaper milk)
Good for Canadian citizens (cheaper milk)
Bad for American dairy farmers (lower cost competition)
Good for Canadian dairy farmers (easier to compete in the US)​

Trump's lumber policy is:
Bad for American citizens (more expensive lumber)
Indifferent for Canadian citizens (their prices aren't effected)
Good for American lumber companies (less domestic competition)
Bad for Canadian lumber companies (more difficult to compete in the US)
So Canada manages to make a policy change that is good for 3 out of 4 interests, and most importantly LOWERED trade barriers. Trump responds by doing something which is good for only 1 out of 4 interests, and INCREASES trade barriers. Canada increases competition, which is generally good for consumers. Trump decreases competition, which is generally bad for consumers.

Tell me how this isn't idiotic.

Don't talk about "hate colored glasses" and "view of the world" nonsense. This is trade policy, and the way to view it is through economic analysis.
 
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ibookg409

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Want to see things the way they are? Make a checklist and tally up the interests:

Canada's milk policy change is:
Good for American citizens (cheaper milk)
Good for Canadian citizens (cheaper milk)
Bad for American dairy farmers (lower cost competition)
Good for Canadian dairy farmers (easier to compete in the US)​

Trump's lumber policy is:
Bad for American citizens (more expensive lumber)
Indifferent for Canadian citizens (their prices aren't effected)
Good for American lumber companies (less domestic competition)
Bad for Canadian lumber companies (more difficult to compete in the US)
So Canada manages to make a policy change that is good for 3 out of 4 interests, and most importantly LOWERED trade barriers. Trump responds by doing something which is good for only 1 out of 4 interests, and INCREASES trade barriers. Canada increases competition, which is generally good for consumers. Trump decreases competition, which is generally bad for consumers.

Tell me how this isn't idiotic.

Don't talk about "hate colored glasses" and "view of the world" nonsense. This is trade policy, and the way to view it is through economic analysis.
LOL. Your "economic analysis" is nothing more than your opinion. Brilliant. Thanks for playing.
 

jpietrzak8

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If the point of NAFTA is to support free trade then why is Canada not engaging in free trade? Canada is not going to stop unfair trade practices just because the US asks them to do so.
Oh, really? I guess diplomacy has disappeared in the world then? The only way to communicate with other governments is through punitive measures?

And really, can I at least ask the question: why Canada? Trump isn't placing any new tariffs on North Korea. He isn't placing any new tariffs on Russia. During the election, he was calling China a "currency manipulator" and saying that they were "raping" our economy -- yet now he's all buddy-buddy with Xi Jinping and trying to partner with them in any way possible.

So, he's decided to instead focus his big guns on America's biggest enemy, Canada. It just doesn't make sense to me.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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LOL. Thanks. I needed that. I fantasize about building a cabin in Northern Canada and just living off the land. No people. No BS. No PRSI giving me bloody ulcers.
I was just going by things I've heard that Canada could be a go to for cheap medication in the US (and Mexico).

I have a family cabin about 3 hours south of SF, a real cabin, not one of those second houses most people would love as their main house. No internet. It's glorious.
 

ibookg409

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Where's your analysis? I know it's a lot easier to insult me than to actually debate a serious point. But that's your MO.
Noting that you only posted your opinion is not insulting you. You seem a bit sensitive to criticism. I think I posted a link above as well.
[doublepost=1493130858][/doublepost]
Oh, really? I guess diplomacy has disappeared in the world then? The only way to communicate with other governments is through punitive measures?

And really, can I at least ask the question: why Canada? Trump isn't placing any new tariffs on North Korea. He isn't placing any new tariffs on Russia. During the election, he was calling China a "currency manipulator" and saying that they were "raping" our economy -- yet now he's all buddy-buddy with Xi Jinping and trying to partner with them in any way possible.

So, he's decided to instead focus his big guns on America's biggest enemy, Canada. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I doubt North Korea imports anything of significance into the US. I personally think he should have placed tariffs on China goods coming here. I think this new tariff talk may have the same result as the threat to tax Ford and other companies that left the US. So I think some good will come if it.
[doublepost=1493131059][/doublepost]
I was just going by things I've heard that Canada could be a go to for cheap medication in the US (and Mexico).

I have a family cabin about 3 hours south of SF, a real cabin, not one of those second houses most people would love as their main house. No internet. It's glorious.
My place in northern New Hampshire is like that. No internet, no cell service, no TV. Just woods and streams and trees and peace. But occasionally I still see people and I don't like it. Need to get further up north.
 

bodonnell202

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Jan 5, 2016
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If the point of NAFTA is to support free trade then why is Canada not engaging in free trade? Canada is not going to stop unfair trade practices just because the US asks them to do so.
Maybe do a little research? Canada is engaging in free trade. This fight has been going on since the 80s and time and time again international tribunals rule in Canada's favour. It is America that is introducing anti free trade protectionist policies and ultimately it will be bad for business on both sides of the border.
 
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