Trump won't be a bad president...but climate change is real.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dontwalkhand, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. dontwalkhand macrumors 601


    Jul 5, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    This is the part that scares me the most. He seems to not care one bit about the environment and he said it himself it was a hoax. Yes take the economy back to where it should be, but lots and lots of research shows it's NOT a hoax.

    I honestly want some constructive opinions about what many of you here think of this. I want to hear from both sides what you guys have to say.

    I'd like to throw this out there
    • There is no such thing as clean coal.
    • Teslas, Prius, Bolt whatever should be incentivized via tax breaks, not F350s, or GMC Yukons
    • Trump hopefully will not pull out of the Paris agreement, this would definitely set our country back.
    • Most trump supporters didn't even know this or take it into account when I spoke to them.
    • Environmental policies should be bi partisan!
    I don't like Hillary either. I voted for Gary Johnson! I'm just honestly scared about this, and everyone loves to skate around the elect's environmental policies when discussing the presidency.
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Neither you, nor I know how good a president Trump will be.
  3. ActionableMango, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016

    ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    They already are.

    Although I don't think a $100,000+ car should come with a tax rebate even if its electric. If you can afford six figure cars, you don't need another tax rebate. I'd rather save that for the more affordable electric models where a $7500 rebate is far more likely to be make or break for middle class buyers.
  4. ibookg409 Suspended


    Apr 20, 2016
    Portsmouth, NH
    Personally I want an elio. 3 wheels. All gas. 84 MPG.
  5. Rhonindk macrumors 68030


    Couple of Climate things ...
    • We think we know what is causing it. Maybe.
    • We don't know the whole cause / effect process.
    • The actual impact is a wag at best (we don't have the computer power to properly model).
    • As much as we "go green" in the USA, Indonesia can kill off all our gains in a week.
    • Technology will likely fix this.
    • We are doing more politicizing about Climate Change than we are actually fixing things.
    • Hybrid cars are great however the impact from building and disposing of the batteries is worse than the savings.
    • Paris Accord is great. Now how do we pull in the third world countries that don't abide by it.
    We need more answers. Until then we are band-aiding the death of a thousand cuts and hoping it will work.
  6. tgara macrumors 6502a


    Jul 17, 2012
    Connecticut, USA
    I don't think "climate change" is a hoax. The climate is always changing, even on very long timescales (no, I'm not being sarcastic or snarky).

    The real question, and where the differences of opinion lie, are (1) what is causing it (us, solar radiation, geomagnetic influence, cow farts, etc.), and (2) can we do anything about it?

    The problem I and a lot of others have regarding climate change policy is that whatever people say, the science is NOT settled. There are very eminent scientists who disagree that man is the cause, and that spending trillions of dollars implementing programs to "curb" climate change or global warming will be a wasted effort. As a person schooled in science and having an advanced degree, I simply do not believe the work of a selected few on this topic, especially when others have such differing views. I have an open mind, but am not convinced, not yet anyway, we are somehow cooking ourselves. Before we spend the kind of money people are saying we should on this, I'd like to have more facts and be a bit more sure about it.
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    That's the saddest part.

    For once, I wish you were.
  8. R.Perez macrumors 6502


    Feb 16, 2010
    Philadelphia, PA
    Ah yes, all the people with zero scientific understanding get to pontificate about climate change.

    Guess what? We do understand it. Human activity from highly developed countries is responsible for it, and if we don't make drastic changes we are in for serious ecological consequences, many of which we are already seeing.
  9. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

    Oct 27, 2009
    When the Jet Stream we are used to is no longer, that's when we are in for a ride. :eek::eek::eek:
  10. aaronvan Suspended


    Dec 21, 2011
    República Cascadia
    If you don't enthusiastically support massive construction of new greenhouse-free nuclear power plants, then you're not really concerned about climate change.
  11. Populism macrumors regular


    Jun 11, 2014
    You raise an excellent point.

    All things being equal, does the incoming President focus the most on climate change, on restroom entry, on Supreme Court nominations, on economic trade, or letting everyone keep their primary doctor?

    I agree with your question, OP.

    Which do YOU think Trump should focus on the most?
  12. TPadden macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    What????? The iPhone 7 didn't solve the world's climate-proof phone problem????
  13. R.Perez macrumors 6502


    Feb 16, 2010
    Philadelphia, PA
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Unfortunately, the president has to juggle many issues simultaneously, often ones they didn't expect to be juggling.

    If Trump can only focus on a few things at a time, then he isn't up to the job.
  15. cfedu, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016

    cfedu macrumors 65816


    Mar 8, 2009
    Not believing in man made climate change does not mean you don't care about the environment. CO2 may cause climate change but it is not a pollutant, as it also has many benefits. Even even is man made climate change is 100% accurate, I would still support Trumps approach as all the alternatives will just waste money and accomplish nothing.

    Conserving resources and being more efficient should be the goal of society, but to make laws that will just kill business and move CO2 production out of the country will accomplish nothing. We need real solutions and not expensive bandaids, we have to invest in how to cope with climate change and how to become more efficient. If the goal is just to reduce CO2, you can count me out.
  16. Populism macrumors regular


    Jun 11, 2014
    Welcome back, citizenzen!

    How long do we have you for this time?
  17. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Depend on how interesting you are.

    So far ... not very.
  18. Carlanga macrumors 604


    Nov 5, 2009
    Before incentives:
    Tesla Model 3 : $35k
    Prius : $25-30k
    Bolt : $38k
    All wayyy under $100k and rebates are limited to a quantity so they need to make them permanent IMO.
  19. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

    Dec 28, 2004
    Rhonindk, there have been a plethora of studies into the cause of climate change. The science is well understood and there are very few questions concerning the cause. There is no "maybe" about it.

    We do know and understand the whole cause/effect process. You might read up on greenhouse gasses, or just take a look at Venus (the planet).

    The actual impact is also easy to calculate. If you want a simple, easy-to-understand measurement, look at the CO2 ppm measurement. We're currently at around 400ppm. For the past 10,000 years we sat at a comfortable 280ppm. 400ppm isn't necessarily bad, but the dramatic increase in such a short period of time is unprecedented and troubling.

    "Going green" in the US will certainly help, and it might stimulate our economy and offer new sectors for manufacturing and investment.

    How will technology fix it?

    Climate change should not be a political issue. Why are politicians politicizing it?

    The vast majority of scientists believe that climate change is occurring, and believe that the cause is human action.

    A tiny minority do not believe that humans are causing global climate change. In fact, based on your post, you do believe the work of a select few rather believing the vast majority of scientists.
  20. ActionableMango macrumors G3


    Sep 21, 2010
    I am aware, thanks? Those are the ones I think the rebates should be reserved for, but they are getting used up in Tesla's case by the Model S and X.
  21. Populism macrumors regular


    Jun 11, 2014


    citizenzen 1 Populism 0
  22. macmee Suspended


    Dec 13, 2008
    I don't understand how people can rationally say with a straight face that climate change isn't real.

    If you look at a list of the top 100 universities in the world, I guarantee you 99% of them have studied climate change and believe it's real.
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Thank goodness for participation trophies. ;)

    (I'd give you two points just for having a sense of humor)
  24. juanm macrumors 65816


    May 1, 2006
    Fury 161
    Moving society from fossil fuels to renewable energy works.
    A large scale training program coal miners (and other dead industries workers) into solar pv and wind turbines, for instance, would solve several problems at once.

    Trump's policies are a short sighted nod to the Washington lobbyists he was supposed to be against.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 21, 2016 ---
    A few remarks here:
    - Tesla has always been open about their plan to build low number, high profit margin luxury cars first, to pay for the infrastructure that will allow to then mass-produce cheaper cars.
    - Iirc the subsidies are in terms of amount of cars sold, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter whether they are luxury cars or a small city cars. The purpose was to sell X amount of electric cars, not to sell X amount of electric cars to the middle class (see first point). It's annoying that people who can afford more expensive cars also get to travel for free, but that's how it is.
    - Tesla cars are built in the US.
  25. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Jan 31, 2010
    Midlife, Midwest
    Trump will be a dreadful President. Without question the crookedest, most venal, petty, ignorant, and dangerous person we have ever elected to the White House.

    Case in point (and vaguely on-topic, as it relates to Climate Change): On Monday night it was reported that when he met with British Ukip leader Nigel Farage and pushed to stop the construction of wind-farms near Trump's Aberdeenshire golf resort. He also, apparently, is pushing to have Farage Appointed British Ambassador to the United States.

    The utter venality of this ought to stagger the mind. (Quick question: How is this, in any manner imaginable, supposed to improve the lives of the benighted fools who voted for Trump in Waukesha County, WI; or Lubbock, TX?) It won't. It's designed to do one thing: Improve Donald Trump's business prospects. Trump might have a "100 Day Plan" - but he's using the first few weeks of getting elected to cutting deals with people too stupid to realize what doing business with Donald Trump is likely to result in.

    The issue of the Aberdeenshire wind-farms is settled. Britain's Highest Court has ruled on the matter. The people of Scotland want the wind farms. And unlike Trump's ******** golf courses, they actually do create thousands of well-paid, family and community-supporting jobs. And, in case Trump is too stupid to figure this out, Theresa May is highly unlikely to appoint Nigel Farage to be Britain's ambassador to the United States. The reasons for this are so numerous and clearly obvious to anyone with even the slightest understanding the relationship between the US and Britain, to say nothing of longstanding diplomatic protocol, that they are hardly worth repeating.

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