: Trump's Border Wall Could Save Americans Nearly $64 Billion Over 10 Years

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/...s-report-64-billion-savings-trump-border-wall
    nice numbers, but walls don't work IMHO.
    easier to just punish employers , like this guy said
     
  2. zin macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Wow, this Barack Obama guy sounds pretty tough on the topic. Is he planning on running in 2020?
     
  3. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #3
  4. HEK, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

    HEK Suspended

    HEK

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    #4
    Trump figures way to pay for wall. Tourist attraction, new national wall park. $50 fee to see it, touch it up close.

    Plus added benefit of creating jobs. The 40 foot tall wall, stimulates ladder builders to make 41 foot ladders that we export to Mexico.
     
  5. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #5
    Interesting how Fox News distorts the original study to claim that that much money would be saved in 10 years. I followed their link to look at it and it is actually saying that the $64 billion would be saved over the lifetime of the immigrants that it might stop over the next decade. Also according to the article the savings would mostly be to state and local governments (not a bad thing) while the costs of the wall would be on the federal government, so we'd still have to pay for it.
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    "Past reports by the CIS have been deemed misleading and riddled with basic errors by scholars on immigration; think tanks from across the political spectrum (such as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the Cato Institute, Reason Foundation, the Heritage Foundation and Center for American Progress); left-leaning, neutral and right-leaning media (including the Wall Street Journal, Politifact and NBC News); several leading nonpartisan immigration-research organizations (such as Migration Policy Institute and the American Immigration Council); and by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.[31][32][33][34][35][36][3][37][38][39][40][41][42][43]

    Writing in 2007 about a recent CIS report, Wayne A. Cornelius, Distinguished Professor of Political Science and Director of the Center for Comparative Immigration Studies at UCSD, said, "Like all reports emanating from the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., the latest one... offers a relentlessly negative view of the most recent wave of immigration to the United States. The economic benefits of immigration – even illegal immigration – to the average American are barely acknowledged, while the costs are estimated in such a way as to provoke the maximum degree of public anger and anxiety."[34]"


    Hmmm, what does it say when the right and left think tanks both agree your research is garbage?
     
  7. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #7
    that the black guy was much better at sticking it to illegals? [​IMG]
     
  8. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Probably means it is right.
     
  9. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #9
    Any time someone speaks in absolutes like that, I pretty much immediately dismiss what they say. Even if that person is a "distinguished professor of political science". It's a sure sign of bias; no better than saying "all muslims are terrorists".
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    That was one excerpt directly from the Wiki of the organization in question. If you want to go to the page and look at all the condemnations cited at the bottom go for it.

    I know you're not seriously under the impression that one guy is the end all and be all of criticism, so to pick at the one quoted person and ignore the criticisms from the likes of the Heritage Foundation all the way to NBC news (the whole spectrum of corporatism essentially) strikes me as utter disingenuousness.

    That "research" organization has been putting out hack job "reports" for nearly 30 years, as they are a PR firm disguised as a policy research organization.
     
  11. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #11
    Chill bro...'twas merely a comment about that one guys quote.
     
  12. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #12
    That when it comes to an issue like illegal immigration, there are reasons for both right and left think tanks to support it, and to denigrate those who oppose it.
     
  13. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #13
    man you just dissed duckofdeath badly.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    Yea, that's what set me off....bro.

    I get that you people don't give a **** about anything but your "team" winning, but at least have the decency to not not be disingenuous in selectively picking at one quote that was an example of the criticism coming from multiple sources.

    Perhaps a better response would have been something pointing to any level of credibility of CIS?
     
  15. SLC Flyfishing, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

    SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #15

    Good grief, panties too tight or something?

    First: You don't even know what my "team" is; you think you do but you would be wrong.

    Second: Sometimes when someone criticizes something in your post, they're really just criticizing that one thing you posted.

    It wasn't even a commentary on you, just thebquote you posted, so I don't see why you're so sore about it anyway.

    I know nothing about CIS, couldn't care less about them, or frankly about any of the other organizations you linked statements from.

    Like I said, I was just pointing out that one of your quotes was from a guy who broadbrushed everything CIS (whoever they are) has ever written or said. That's a tactic that betrays bias and I pointed that out, simple as that.
     
  16. NT1440, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

    NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #16
    Please, what was the point of your post other than to push back on the notion that the CIS is a full of **** anti-immigration organization with decades of evidence backing up that assertion?

    @ the underlined, I'd prefer if you just attacked me instead of callously throwing away the notion that the CIS is an anti-immigrant mouthpiece. In fact, it's funded by John Tanton: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Tanton_Network


    Btw, I know SLC isn't a right winger, but I'm going to pull up this Tanton guy every time one of these people screams from the hilltops about Soros (who's also an *******, but the idea that this one guy is the force behind "the left" is just absurd).
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #17
    From the Center for Immigration Studies own website:

    Now, the Center wants to temper how that data is used, but CIS's entire structure is biased toward limiting immigration:

    It's important to note that CIS, along with NumbersUSA, and the Federation for American Immigration Reform are all connected by nativist John Tanton, and were founded to create the sense of three separate organizations—a think tank, a policy arm, and a "news" organ.

    I've been reading CIS reports for years, and they will always choose the "worst case" scenario when understanding the costs of legal and illegal immigration, using ginned-up analysis that's then disseminated to conservative news outlets, with the hope that a story will get enough tread to break into the mainstream.

    For instance, the costs of illegal immigrants is a strapped-chicken, using the number of households with one "illegal" head-of-household and then multiplying that number by all most social services, mixing those available to legal and illegal immigrants, and U.S. citizens.

    And, CIS ignores the economic benefit of immigrants, their economic output, and the amount of taxes they pay.

    A coherent immigration system will mitigate the consequences of immigration, and provide more long-term benefits. The DACA program illustrates this clearly.

    On the other hand, we've spent the last 30 years building up border defenses, complete with "consequence delivery systems" in the courts, and the net result is the deaths of thousands of people in the southwestern deserts, increasing power to the plazas, and the severing of ties in the pueblos of Mexico.

    A wall is stupid nonsense best illustrated by the pile of homemade ladders by the wall in El Paso.
     
  18. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #18
    I'll direct you to my recent post explaining it...


    Sad I have to do this, but I'll direct you again, to the same post, which was posted less than 15 minutes ago, and which you even quoted...

    To put it plainly, maybe pick better sources the next time.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    You're far more transparent than you think you are.

    Have a good day, try not to give a **** about anybody, I know how that conflicts with your worldview.
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    There's painting someone with a broad brush and then there's accuracy. Saying that CIS is for limiting legal immigration and therefore a report from them arguing such is basically a dog bites man story. Of course, CIS thinks the wall will save money.
     
  21. SLC Flyfishing, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

    SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #21
    [​IMG]

    Seriously man, get a grip on yourself. The histrionics are unbecoming.
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #22
    Just not in public, especially near a school.
     
  23. SLC Flyfishing, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

    SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #23
    Ok, I'm going to appeal to the forum rules here:

    You claim the broad brush fallacy doesn't apply to the good professors assessment. I need proof. You need to show definitively that ALL CIS reports are relentlessly negative.

    If you can't or won't, that's an admission that the "distinguished professor" in question was just talking out his ass and seeking to label an organization he disagrees with. (And you did too, by saying he is right)

    Backup your claim, or retract it.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    Yeah, okay. Let's just put the goalposts on the top of Mt. Vesuvius and then argue that because I can't hit the extra kick from here I can't play for the NFL.

    I don't have to show that "all" reports "are relentlessly negative" to make my point.

    Here's the latest opinion pieces written by the group:
    Judges shouldn't control borders
    Border security means that entering is privilege, not a right
    Travel ban: Trump's legal order will make nation safer
    Trump should make it illegal to replace skilled U.S. tech employees
    New York Times Runs Front-Page Ad for Jeff Sessions
    Jeff Sessions Will Be A Breath Of Fresh Air At The Justice Department
    Sanctuary Cities Must Cooperate With Federal Enforcement
    Immigration 'Law and Order' Starts at State Department
    How Trump's Plan to Deport Criminal Illegal Aliens Would Work
    Companies can stop illegal immigration in seconds — but this free identity check isn't mandatory

    Here are books written by the group in the last 10 years: (Note, I'm including a broadsheet, which includes a piece written by an author not with CIS that is for legal immigration)

    Open Immigration: Yea & Nay
    How Obama Is Transforming America Through Immigration
    The New Case Against Immigration, Both Legal and Illegal
    The 50% American: Immigration And National Identity in an Age of Terror
    America's 2nd Civil War: Political Leadership in a Divided Society
    One America?: Political Leadership, National Identity, and the Dilemmas of Diversity

    And, Fact Sheets sent out by CIS:
    Fact Sheet: MS-13 Arrests by ICE: 2005-2014
    ICE Gang Arrests Fact Sheet E-Verify Fact Sheet
    Marginal Schools with the Power to Issue I-20 Forms
    Central American Immigrants in the U.S.
    Immigration Enforcement and Community Policing
    Immigration Enforcement Fact Sheet

    Let's see, where's that fact sheet on the taxes paid to the Social Security fund? Or, the economic benefit of DACA? Hmmm... estimates of economic output from migrant farming? Nope.

    Here's the thing. Sometimes CIS is not wrong, but it's clear that the group wants to minimize immigration and clearly works to link immigrants with crime, terror, and worry about demographic shifts.
     
  25. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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