Trump's UN Envoy: Syria regime change is now a priority

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Solomani, Apr 9, 2017.

  1. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #1
  2. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #2
    The globalists like Clinton and Merkle are applauding Trump for this.

    Trump is human. He makes mistakes.
    I don't think regime change in Syria is a good idea.
     
  3. Solomani thread starter macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #3
    Clinton and Merkle do not currently hold positions in the US Congress or the White House. Do remember that the war-hawks like John McCain and Marco Rubio are the Senators that are pushing him toward more wars. It looks like he is caving in to their pressures. Oh well.
     
  4. zin macrumors 6502

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    Trump will make a BIG mistake if he tries to overthrow Assad. He will destabilise the region, cause Islamic terrorists to take over, and seal his fate as a one-term president who turned out no different than Bush/Obama/Clinton.
     
  5. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    Hmm. Bush made a BIG mistake, overthrew Saddam, destabilized the region, and caused Islamic terrorists to take over.

    However, after doing this, he handily won a second term.

    It can be hard to understand the hearts of the American citizenry sometimes...
     
  6. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    Libya didn't help either.
     
  7. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    Libya? What did Bush do in Libya? As I recall, the only item of note is that Bush "convinced" Gaddafi to give up his nuclear weapons research facilities, which was a huge PR win...
     
  8. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Al Qaeda was already operating out of the Middle East, and Iraq was fairly stable when Bush left office. Obama left the vacuum when he pulled out. Remember "JV squad"?

    Obama was half heartedly attempting to overthrow Assad for a large part of his term. How many millions did Obama dump into that region while we heard not a peep from the left? Now liberals are out protesting war as if we haven't been involved in this region for the entire Obama term, what a joke.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 9, 2017 ---
    At the very least this makes the tin foil hatters who thought the missile strike was staged look like fools.

    It also further calls into question the merits of the Russia investigation, it's pretty clear Putin isn't pulling the strings here.
     
  9. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    What did Obama do in Libya?
     
  10. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    Credit where credit is due, this is a good step in the right direction IF (and that's a big "if") it's done correctly.
     
  11. zin macrumors 6502

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    Have you learned nothing from every other attempt at overthrowing a foreign regime?
     
  12. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #12
    I am questioning the human part for you have proof?
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    Assad is a war criminal. Why is the United Nations not coming down on him hard? Just throwing that out there for consideration along with this:

    Russia, China block U.N. sanctions on Syria over gas attacks

    For being the most advanced on the planet (as far as we know) we are such a sad flawed pathetic species. :oops:
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    I guess Trumps meeting with China didn't go THAT well.
     
  15. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    Why do I care? Has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 9, 2017 ---
    Which is, of course, not the point. You yourself just said that overthrowing Assad will be a huge mistake. And I agree! And I'm saying that overthrowing Saddam was exactly the same sort of mistake, and had exactly the same consequences.

    Obama may have hated Assad with a passion, but he never sent in the troops to take him out. So he doesn't work as an example in this situation.
     
  16. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    Ahh, of course not.
     
  17. nia820 macrumors 68000

    nia820

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    This is going to be Iraq 2.0. Assad should have been eliminated at the start of this war. But now ISIS has exploded. The goal should be getting rid of both ISIS and Assad at the same time. Taking out Assad without taking out ISIS first is dangerous.

    I'm worried though. Overthrowing Saddam proved to do more harm than good. I hope overthrowing Assad doesn't have the same effect.
     
  18. zin macrumors 6502

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    The goal should be to ensure Assad, a secularist, regains control of his country from people who wish to turn it into an Islamic hellhole. There is only one legitimate government in Syria; it being led by a guy you dislike doesn't change that in the slightest. Nobody else has the right to overthrow that government.
     
  19. Solomani thread starter macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #19
    And the US-Libya foreign relations should have concluded with that, a denuclearized Libya with a contained dictator. He even ended up paying reparations for the Scotland Lockerbie deaths. Libya was finally a contained situation….. but then Obama screwed it up by supporting and endorsing an "Arab Spring" in Libya.
     
  20. nia820 macrumors 68000

    nia820

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    I agree that overthrowing Assad at this point would make the ISIS situation worse.

    The thing is Assad is killing his own people. Should be allowed to continue to rule as kill innocent people because he is allegedly fighting ISIS? If you ask me, Assad and Putin have allowed ISIS to infest Syria because it gives Assad a cover to kill those who oppose him. This civil war started because his people were fed up with the BS and Assad's Tyrant ways.

    Russia and Syria should have been rid of the ISIS infestation by now. Seems like killing innocent people is more important to them than killing ISIS members.
     
  21. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #21
    While I mostly agree with this, I've gotta say, "Obama screwed it up" is going a little far. The whole Mideast was destabilized by the destruction of Iraq as a country. The Arab Spring was gonna happen, whether we liked it or not. If Obama chose to help the rebels, fight the rebels, or stay out altogether, the result would still have been the same: pissed off Arabian citizens fighting their own governments in a chaotic free-for-all.

    The benefit of having strongmen dictators controlling countries in the Mideast for decades was stability. The downside of having strongmen dictators controlling countries in the Mideast for decades was that it allowed an enormous amount of unhappiness build up in the oppressed citizenry, just waiting for an opening to explode. Overthrowing the Baathist regime in Iraq lifted the lid off the pressure cooker; it was inevitable that the rest of the region would explode in response.
     
  22. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    If we could go back in time I agree Iraq would have probably better left alone, although there would be a much higher chance of having all of the ME nuclearized at this point as they all raced for it. I'd rather negotiate with an evil rational son of a bitch than a religious nutbag though.
     
  23. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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  24. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    Possibly; however, given that Israel is already nuclearized, and several nations are playing around with chemical weapons of mass destruction, I'm not sure things are all that different today. There's a lot of destructive power in the region, and a lot of twitchy trigger-fingers.

    It's a mess. It's been a mess (since ancient times!). It'll continue to be a mess. :(

    Meh. I could see there being better short-term outcomes with the evil dictator, but long-run they do seem to gravitate towards the same end-point...
     
  25. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #25
    Numerically, it should be Irag 3.0. Iraq itself has already used versions 1.0 and 2.0.

    A rational version numbering allows skipping version numbers (e.g. Windows 8 -> Windows 10), but not reusing them.
     

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