Trying to run a TB5-enclosure drives me crazy!

[macerkopp]

For a few days I tried to use an external TB5/80Gbps-enclosure on my new M4max. But a new day, a now issue with my MacStudio, it doesn`t work as expected...
Meanwhile I tried it with two different enclosures an the original cables and a seperately bought one as well. And I´m in the comfortable situation to own still my old M1max, so I`m able to double-check it there. I used to use all time TB3-enclosures from Acasis together witch WD SN850x SSD, without any issue so far.

Following results with my two test enclosures:
Enclosure A:
M1max: recognized as TB4, runs perfectly with expectable speeds
M4max: recognized as USBC4 V2 in system information, but the drive itself is not even being mounted, so it`s not to see or use in the finder.

Enclosure B:
M1max: recognized as TB4, runs perfectly
M4max: recognized as TB3(?) in system information, drive is mounted, shown and readable in the finder - but as soon I try to write on it
it gets unmounted.

So my big question mark is, what is getting wrong here? And my biggest concern meanwhile is: is my M4max out of order??
Any thoughts or ideas by the community are very welcome!
Is somebody running a TB5-enclosure on MacStudio M4max, what is working definatly, so I could double check the
behavior of my own M4max to foreclose issues with my Mac?

Enclosure A

ANYOYO 80 Gbit/s M.2 NVMe SSD-Gehäuse unterstützt bis zu 8 TB intelligente Temperaturregelung und Lüfterkühlung, kompatibel mit Thunderbolt 3/4/5/USB4, abwärtskompatibel mit USB 3.2/3.1/3.0 (Schwarz)

ANYOYO 80 Gbit/s SSD-Gehäuse. Entfesseln Sie die Leistung der Hochgeschwindigkeits-Datenübertragung mit dem ANYOYO 80 Gbit/s SSD-Gehäuse. High-Speed-Leistung: Mit einer beeindruckenden Datenübertragungsrate von 80 Gbit/s sorgt dieses Gehäuse für blitzschnelle Datenübertragungen, wodurch Wartezeit...

www.amazon.de

Enclosure B

QWIIZLAB Fanless 80Gbps M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure with Aluminium Case, Compatible with Thunderbolt 5/4/3, Backward Compatible with USB4/UBS3.2/3.1/3.0, Supports PCIe M.2 SSD up to 8TB (Silver)

Experience next-generation external storage solutions with our 80Gbps Thunderbolt 5 NVMe Fanless SSD Enclosure. The all-aluminum chassis features an innovative fin design combined with a copper plate for optimal heat dissipation, ensuring peak performance without fan noise. Enjoy lightning-fast d...

www.amazon.de

 

[okkibs]

Probably comes down to Thunderbolt controller incompatibilities. It's what happens when buying no-name stuff off the marketplace. It might work, it might not work, but there isn't any brand name behind it that guarantees compatibility or checks for it, and there certainly won't be any support.

 

[macerkopp]

Yeah, can`t argue in principle with that argument, but there are a lot of users/user reports, reporting these gadgets run very properly. And: I wouldn`t name Acasis (new named Anyoyo) as a "no name" in that matter. They built in the past very successful enclosures for TB3.
I`d claim not only OWC is able to build this stuff successfully- and if you´d look for some user experiences reporting their experiences with that enclosures then you`d find a lot of issues as well. Only the pricing is three times higher as the so called "no names"

 

[okkibs]

I agree with you there and OWC probably isn't often worth the premium they charge. And cheaper brands like Anker often slap their label on a generic design sold by various brands. Regardless, I'd start by looking up what specific controller your enclosures use and see if there are any user reports or other info on compatibility with various Mac generations to be found.

Weird that Acasis renamed to Anyoyo. I'd give Acasis a try as they seem to have established a brand of well working products but renaming that to sound like one of the dozens fake brands on amazon might not have been the best move.

Also not all ports on the Studio are necessarily equal. You might find the front ports don't behave the same as the back ports. At least according to user reports the front ports don't always work so well it seems.

 

[Ifti]

Could be something to do with your computer. I've been through a whole host of enclosures and they have been fine. They all typically run the same JHL9480 chipset, which handles the TB5 level 80Gbs speeds, and the Realtek RTL9210, which deals with backwards compatibility. These are proven chipsets that work especially well.
Most current 80Gbps enclosures run this chipset pair, so they are all pretty much the same, just wrapped up in a different external design etc.

Only a few OWC drives, and Sabrent drives, are actually TB5 certified by Intel. These are typically the drives that are not user serviceable though. Because of the huge number of possibilities with enclosures depending upon the SSD inserted inside, Intel does not certify them, but they are instead marketed as 'Compatible with TB5'. In essence, the speed etc is the same.

Just this weekend I have been testing the Qwiizlab you have linked to in your first post (I also have a M4 Max) and after various speed tests etc I've been getting fantastic performance from it. No disconnection issues. Nothing at all.

The only disconnect issues I had was with an OWC Envoy Ultra. It was quickly replaced by OWC, and my replacement worked perfectly well. So that was down to a drive error of some kind. Otherwise, with all the drives I've been through, all have worked perfectly well......

BTW, I only use Apple's Thunderbolt Pro cables - although that shouldn't make any difference......

 

[macerkopp]

@Ifti
Thanks a lot for this very valuable information. Valuable but concerning, because it seems to approve my suspicions something would be wrong with my MacStudio. So I`ve to talk with Apple about it, hoping for a quick replacement.

 

[maflynn]

@Ifti
Thanks a lot for this very valuable information. Valuable but concerning, because it seems to approve my suspicions something would be wrong with my MacStudio. So I`ve to talk with Apple about it, hoping for a quick replacement.

To build upon @Ifti, if you have an Apple store near can you take the enclosure too, then you can plug it into one of their macs to see if its behaving any different, i.e., if it works then maybe its specific to your mac

 

[maflynn]

The only disconnect issues I had was with an OWC Envoy Ultra.

Not for nothing, but I have that drive, and its been perfect for me. Zero disconnects (*knocks on wood*)

 

[macerkopp]

To build upon @Ifti, if you have an Apple store near can you take the enclosure too, then you can plug it into one of their macs to see if its behaving any different, i.e., if it works then maybe its specific to your mac

A really good idea indeed, but it will take me at least 1 hour to get there, so, yes, it is an opportunity now, knowing by @Ifti `s information that a least one of my enclosures is supposed to work really.

EDITH: was just in contact with the Apple hotline. They offered a visit of a technician here at home or sending out the Mac to repair. Hmmm, hoped they would offer a pre-replacement with an other MacStudio, but as I learned that is only available for IOS gadgets. Hmmm, not amused, I mean if there would be issues with the TB5 lines located on the mainbord, what a technician could do out of an specific workshop?!

 

[Ifti]

Not for nothing, but I have that drive, and its been perfect for me. Zero disconnects (*knocks on wood*)

It seemed to be a drive issue. All my other OWC drives have always been spot on, and my replacement Envoy Ultra has also been perfect. I do trust OWC drives - never had any issues with them and performance has always been great!

A really good idea indeed, but it will take me at least 1 hour to get there, so, yes, it is an opportunity now, knowing by @Ifti `s information that a least one of my enclosures is supposed to work really.

EDITH: was just in contact with the Apple hotline. They offered a visit of a technician here at home or sending out the Mac to repair. Hmmm, hoped they would offer a pre-replacement with an other MacStudio, but as I learned that is only available for IOS gadgets. Hmmm, not amused, I mean if there would be issues with the TB5 lines located on the mainbord, what a technician could do out of an specific workshop?!

When it comes to computers they do tend to repair rather than replace. If it is the main board causing the error (which for I/O ports, is most likely) then they will request the computer is returned to them and they will replace the entire board.

They only tend to replace the entire machine if you have repeat recurring issues and have had to send it in 3-4 times already. And only then, after some complaining!

I had this issue with a previous MacBook. The TB3 ports would keep randomly disconnecting my drives. Luckily it was just before my 3 year AppleCare was due to end. I'm talking literally 2 weeks or so before it was ending!
Apple just replaced the entire mainboard under warranty, and it was fine after that.

 

[macerkopp]

I had this issue with a previous MacBook. The TB3 ports would keep randomly disconnecting my drives. Luckily it was just before my 3 year AppleCare was due to end. I'm talking literally 2 weeks or so before it was ending!
Apple just replaced the entire mainboard under warranty, and it was fine after that.

I always struggled with me if to book AC+ ... or better to safe the money. For years I`ve never had any issue with Iphones, Ipads or Macs. So - why the hell drop the money into Apples throat?! Particularly for a desktop, what could happen?! And just this time I took the money - and it seems I did it right, although I`m in first two months now with my Mac, so regular guaranty had effected the same actions now, I think

 

[Ifti]

I always struggled with me if to book AC+ ... or better to safe the money. For years I`ve never had any issue with Iphones, Ipads or Macs. So - why the hell drop the money into Apples throat?! Particularly for a desktop, what could happen?! And just this time I took the money - and it seems I did it right, although I`m in first two months now with my Mac, so regular guaranty had effected the same actions now, I think

Yes for the first year you would be covered under the manufacturer warranty regardless 😉

 

[macerkopp]

Meanwhile I learned a lot reg. Apple`s so called first class support with AppleCare... Yesterday the hot line gave me the choice between the options carry in for repair or a technician in front of. Chose the technicians option. Today I got a mail by a service provider located 250km away from my location- and told me I had to send it it, they would not offer on site repairs. I should contact apple again. So did I and was informed that the system not even allowed them to book such an on-site option. Referring to my AppleCare contract was not useful - although in their conditions is written, that there is the right for on-site-service .... but ... the big but, only in that cases that there is such a provider located within an 80km-radius to customer´s location. Funny guys, selling service for money - and can finally self decide how or how many such service providers take under contract to have a tight service web - or not. That`s Monty Python in my opinion .....
Annoying and disillusioning.

Ok., so at least I learned my lesson well, after an investment is before an investment , and Apple can be sure that I`ll not forget that overwhelming experience.....

 

[macerkopp]

Despite the trouble with Apple´s support I wanted to double-check it with a "reliably working" TB5-gadget. So I ordered a Lacie Rugged SSD Pro5. The gadget arrived and I tested it. Plugged it in, was as USB4V2 recognized. Speeds a little below 5000`s. Ok., so far so good .... seemed to work.
The surprise came with a new start. No Lacie to see anymore, it`s not even regognized as a hard drive anymore, only connected with 12MB/s - so like a Computer monitor. That´s it.
Front USB-C panel (no TB) shows it again as an hard drive, pluging it on the back panel (TB5) again nothing....

What a sh.... So with this "foggy" failure picture I´ve not a good feeling to send it anywhere for repair without a contact to explain what the issue is. Apple itself I can forget. Wonder, it it wasntt the best to make an appointment in an Apple store to speak with real persons, with the geniusses 😎 and to demonstrate the issues on my specific MacStudio. No glue if that will work there, I´ve never set a foot into such an Apple etablissement....

 

[macerkopp]

The LaCies Rugged worked on my TB3-backpanel of the M1max so far, but only if it´s the only gadged hanging on the back panes USB-Cs. As soon an add. hard drive is added there is a failure message reg. to less power.
Impressing, Apple 😎

 

[macerkopp]

Finally the riddle is solved ... it`s all about "initial currents"!
I mean, it`s not new that the power delivery of the MacStudios back panels is limited and could cause issues with using several connected gadgets parallely. But I´ve never expected that the real situation is that "limited" on a "power machine" what is discussed here as a substitute for the MacPro....

First of all: the two mentioned TB5-enclosure work very properly and quick - under the right conditions.
case 1: TB5-backpanel connected with 1 monitor + 1enclosure: works, works as well after rebooting the Mac.
case 2: connecting an additional monitor for case 1 during running the Mac, no issue, everything works as before
case 3: rebooting the Mac with the equipment of case ( 2 monitors + 1enclosure) - the enclosure is degraded in speed
or - more common - is not even recognized by the Mac.

That`s indeed disillusioning, that a MacStudio goes to the limit of proper power delivery in this situation, 2 Monitors, 1 enclosure - but it`s fact.
I double checked it with my M1max. In principle same situation, but I´ve never noticed it before because the monitor was always connected via HDM and the backpanel was connected continuously only with 2 TB3-enclosures. In this
combination (still) now power issues....
As I said: some combination of gadgets connected to the backpanel may work if they are connected during the Mac is in operation. First with a reboot the issues occur. That circumstances have had confused me first and made it tricky to understand.

So, now with that knowing, I thinking about to use an additional TB5-hub or TB5-dock with a dedicated power supply - although it sounds strange for me to use a (notebook-) dock for running a desktop.
And: I`m doubting more and more about Apple: wherefore to put 4 TB5 connectors into the machine, it it`s not even possible to run them parallely due to a lack of power?! That´s quite poor, sorry, Apple

Oh, I just notice that this has become a monologue of myself for a while 😎, but anyway, maybe for one or two my findings can be useful in similar situations.

 

[rb2112]

For a few days I tried to use an external TB5/80Gbps-enclosure on my new M4max. ...
...
So my big question mark is, what is getting wrong here?

Could be the Anyoyo's controller. Odd that their description states "the actual theoretical test is up to 6000MB/s" despite it being TB5.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I agree with you there and OWC probably isn't often worth the premium they charge. And cheaper brands like Anker often slap their label on a generic design sold by various brands. Regardless, I'd start by looking up what specific controller your enclosures use and see if there are any user reports or other info on compatibility with various Mac generations to be found.

Weird that Acasis renamed to Anyoyo. I'd give Acasis a try as they seem to have established a brand of well working products but renaming that to sound like one of the dozens fake brands on amazon might not have been the best move.

Also not all ports on the Studio are necessarily equal. You might find the front ports don't behave the same as the back ports. At least according to user reports the front ports don't always work so well it seems.

Had to respond in support of Anker: I have nothing but outstanding results for every Anker products I have purchased for the past few years, specially the "lighted" USB to Thunderbolt adapters. These adapters are small in size and have a pinhole-size blue color LED that tells the accessory you are plugging into the computer has energizes. It reminds me of the lighted MagSafe power cables Apple supplied with the MackBook a few years ago.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Finally the riddle is solved ... it`s all about "initial currents"!
I mean, it`s not new that the power delivery of the MacStudios back panels is limited and could cause issues with using several connected gadgets parallely. But I´ve never expected that the real situation is that "limited" on a "power machine" what is discussed here as a substitute for the MacPro....

First of all: the two mentioned TB5-enclosure work very properly and quick - under the right conditions.
case 1: TB5-backpanel connected with 1 monitor + 1enclosure: works, works as well after rebooting the Mac.
case 2: connecting an additional monitor for case 1 during running the Mac, no issue, everything works as before
case 3: rebooting the Mac with the equipment of case ( 2 monitors + 1enclosure) - the enclosure is degraded in speed
or - more common - is not even recognized by the Mac.

That`s indeed disillusioning, that a MacStudio goes to the limit of proper power delivery in this situation, 2 Monitors, 1 enclosure - but it`s fact.
I double checked it with my M1max. In principle same situation, but I´ve never noticed it before because the monitor was always connected via HDM and the backpanel was connected continuously only with 2 TB3-enclosures. In this
combination (still) now power issues....
As I said: some combination of gadgets connected to the backpanel may work if they are connected during the Mac is in operation. First with a reboot the issues occur. That circumstances have had confused me first and made it tricky to understand.

So, now with that knowing, I thinking about to use an additional TB5-hub or TB5-dock with a dedicated power supply - although it sounds strange for me to use a (notebook-) dock for running a desktop.
And: I`m doubting more and more about Apple: wherefore to put 4 TB5 connectors into the machine, it it`s not even possible to run them parallely due to a lack of power?! That´s quite poor, sorry, Apple

Oh, I just notice that this has become a monologue of myself for a while 😎, but anyway, maybe for one or two my findings can be useful in similar situations.

A very informative whiting you have posted. Thank you for sharing!

I have read some articles where those issues you have written above have been mentioned, and point to the Mac's bus not being able to support sufficient power for several passive (not self-powered) external devices.

The 5k BenQ monitor I use with my Mac Studio incorporates a powered hub to daisy-chain up to 6 other monitors using the monitor's Thunderbolt port (video/audio out). I imagine that a TB4 or TB5 powered hub for your Mac should the answer.

 

[macerkopp]

I imagine that a TB4 or TB5 powered hub for your Mac should the answer.

It did it, indeed. I`m using now an Anker TB5 docking station and all my issues have vanished so far. In the MacStudio`s backpanel I´ve connected one monitor now, the Anyoyo TB enclosure and the upstream connection to the Anker station. The docking station itself now is connected with the second monitor (via DP) and the second TB enclosure. In this combination everything works properly without any issues.
But as I already said: it`s very disillusioning that Apple´s "power house" MacStudio with the assembled 4 TB-connector`s is not even able to provide them with enough energy ... 👎

 

[EugW]

Why would monitors draw significantly more power from the ports? Monitors usually would have their own power source. Have you measured actual power draw?

Maybe it is a device incompatibility.

EDIT:

I just tried this.

I have an M4 Mac mini (Thunderbolt 4), with an LG UltraFine 6K monitor (Thunderbolt 5), with an external SSD attached to that monitor (USB 4, but running at 20 Gbps, not 40 Gbps, because I'm using a 20 Gbps cable with it).

I attached a TB 4 compatible Wattmeter between the Mac mini and monitor, and it shows that there is 0 W power draw. The monitor and SSD attached to the monitor continue to work fine. I believe the SSD uses about 4 Watts, but it draws power from the monitor which in turn gets power from its AC power adapter. As my Wattmeter clearly indicates, it does not derive any significant power from the Mac.

 

[macerkopp]

Very interesting results, that leads me again to concerns that something with my MacStudio is out of order.... 😕
On the other hand I never expected that there is a lot of power consumption by the moniters during the normal operation. The issue was especially with the booting process. And: a second monitor already was disturbing even it was switched off but with a monitor cabel connection in the TB5 connector. I know, that sounds strange but maybe in the booting process the Mac "noticed" that there COULD be a consumer, summerized it and "thinks" it`s not enough power available.... As I said sounds bizarre but I´ve no other idea about it ....

Quick check: connected onto the TB5 back panel is now: 1 Monitor, 1 TB4-enclosure, 1 TB5-enclosure: after booting it one of both enclosures does not work properly: not recognized, not mounted, speed degraded, or both mounted, trying to write on it - the enclosure is getting ejected immediately..... this stuff is so annoying 😕
Dream: would like to have a second MacStudio M4max on site to double check the situation with it.
Think this was the only way to getting sure if something with my MacStudio is wrong - or not....

Ok, doing an other test now with my available MacStudio M1max here, although it`s not exactly the same condition because M1max is supporting only TB4.....

 

[EugW]

It really sounds like it could be a device compatibility issue if the SSD works with less devices attached. This is a common issue. Individual peripherals work fine on their own but once you start mixing and matching multiple third party devices, they sometimes may clash with each other in certain combinations, esp. if they aren’t all using the same chipset.

I’d be surprised if there is anything wrong with your Mac Studio.

BTW, there was a woman on Reddit complaining her Mac Studio was broken because every so often her entire system would freeze. She took the machine in to Apple and they tested it and everything was fine. After questioning she told Reddit that she has like a half dozen third party peripherals attached to it and only ever tested it with everything attached.

 

[macerkopp]

Just changed my testing plans:
Now I connected the Monitor by HDMI ouput together with the TB4- and TB5-enclosure an TB5 back panel. Rebooting the Mac and - tataaa - both enclosures worked absolutely properly! So it HAS something to do with a monitors connection via TB5 back panel .... to be continued ;-)

 

[macerkopp]

@EugW finally you brought me on the right way mentioning this "incompatibillity" stuff....

Use the monitor indeed on the Mac`s TB5 output but connected to the monitor via such a switch:

UGREEN DisplayPort USB C Switch 2 in 1 Out DP1.4 Switcher 8K60Hz 4K240Hz 2 PC 1 Monitor Supports Switching Between 1 Desktop Computer and 1 Laptop Compatible with Windows/Linux/MacOS etc.

The input ports of this switch are a DP 1.4 port and a USB-C port, and the output port is a DP 1.4 port. This switch allows you to freely switch between a laptop and a desktop computer to meet your diverse needs in the office and gaming. The highest resolution reaches 8K@60Hz and is backward comp...

www.amazon.de

Now I connected the Monitor directly via TB with the Mac - and this was finally the cause for the lack of energy on TB5. I`ve never expected that this switch would cause such a signifcant power consumption, that the TB5 chanel came to its limits. But: it does. The switch has it`s own power input you can connect with an power source. But I "saved" that additional cable and let it supply by the cable connected onto the Mac.....

Actually connected on the 5TB back panel: Monitor, connector to my new - but now obviously not anymore needed - docking station, 1 TB4-enclosure, 1 TB5-enclosure. So fully equipped - without any issue now.
I´m very happy currently solved it finally ☺️