TSA & no-fly lists

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by moonman239, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. moonman239, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016

    moonman239 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    #1
    I hate the way our government treats American citizens when it comes to flying.

    First, off, no-fly list. I was watching a video where a hot-shot Republican Congressman interrogates a DHS staff member on the no-fly list. You don't know if you're on the no-fly list until you're denied entry to the secure area at the airport. If you are - according to the ACLU (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fly-list) - you must appeal to the Department of Homeland Security.

    To address this, I'd like to propose a different system:
    1) If DHS wishes to place you on a no-fly list, it must first file an affidavit with a Federal Court having jurisdiction over your residence of record, including all pieces of information that DHS believes justifies putting you on the list. Following the filing, DHS must wait until the Court submits a certification that the presented evidence is sufficient.
    2) If you wish to then challenge this designation, you may do so by petitioning the local Federal Court to open a case. You do not need to prove your innocence; you simply need to convince the Court that the federal government cannot legally justify keeping you on the said list.

    Second, TSA. What I hate most is the prospect of having to endure pat-downs & millimeter-wave scans. These should be reserved for suspected terrorists, not every 20th person who comes through the line. Also, let's talk about their "prohibited items" policy. Do we really need to be concerned if I have a filled water bottle in my carry-on bag?

    Here's an idea: When they go check your ID, they run your information through a computer system. If the system indicates no reason for concern, you are basically immune from more invasive procedures. Otherwise, you will be screened, but nothing except weapons will be seized without probable cause.
     
  2. Oudinot macrumors regular

    Oudinot

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL USA
    #2
    As a fairly frequent flyer I think your plan sucks.
     
  3. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #3
    then by all means, propose an idea that not only completely deters the mistakes and errors from the No-Fly List, but completely dissolves the TSA, as it has been useless since its inception.

    Go on. We're waiting.

    BL.
     
  4. Oudinot macrumors regular

    Oudinot

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL USA
    #4
    So am I to understand that you think his idea is good?
     
  5. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #5
    I never said that. It pains people to no end to just complain and criticize an idea without coming up with a better idea. At least the OP proposed one; you've sledged it, without any contribution of your own. If you have an idea or proposal that is better, please offer it, otherwise, I refer to Dale Carnegie:

    BL.
     
  6. tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Location:
    Somewhere in the Delta Quadrant
    #6
    He's just baiting you into his game of gotcha. You'll post what you should be done, and he'll say it's asinine. Guaranteed, cuz dat's what he do!
     
  7. bradl, Feb 2, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #7
    Like I said to a couple of other people in other threads, don't ever go the early crow, because you may just end up with egg on your face.

    Back on topic: I have my own ideas for what to do with the TSA and DHS, because both have done a lot over the past 15 years to infringe on our 4th amendment rights (you know, the one that most aren't really seeming to care about because they can't get past the 2A in the Constitution).

    1. Affirm the no-fly list. If placed on the no-fly list, you have every right to be notified as to why you are placed on that list, and should be given the means of inquiring as to why, and how to contest such a placement. We are living in a means of government where one is innocent until proven guilty; If DHS is going to make that claim to put you no the no-fly list, they need to prove why such placement is warranted. "National Security" isn't a a valid reason; they need to present such evidence before a magistrate that correctly and firmly links you to the evidence they present to have a valid reason to warrant such a placement.
    2. (Over)Reactive TSA. To this date since its inception, the TSA let alone screeners at the airport, have been reactive at airports as far as security goes. Someone has already made the attempt before the TSA has done something about it. Incident with box cutters happened, resulting in the ban. Richard Reid happened, resulting in us taking off shoes. Get around it? pay a fee or get arrested. Bring a bottle in? bottles banned, resulting in nursing mothers not being able to pump prior to getting to the gate (yes, rules for that have changed, but a blanket ban was in effect prior).

      We really have to wonder about the effectiveness of the TSA:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration#Screening_effectiveness

      With a budget of nearly $7.6 billion, we should be getting a hell of a lot more from them than what we have. In fact, we know we should, as Nate Silver even pointed that out:

      We should do a check of the numbers of the budget we had prior to the inception of the TSA and after, the effectiveness of airport security before and after the TSA, business before/after, and overall willingness to travel by air before/after the TSA, especially with what we were able to do prior:

      http://matadornetwork.com/change/things-we-miss-travel-before-911/
    There's a lot that we've given up in the name of airport security, and why a number of airports have booted the TSA screeners out, with no drop or lapse in security; in fact, it's been more efficient, more friendly, and less costly than the TSA has provided. And, it could drop this sense of reaction instead of proaction that we've been paralyzed with for the past 15 years.

    EDIT: Oh.. One More Thing.[tm]

    The TSA (screenings) only apply to FAA Part 121 operations (read: commercial airlines). No such screening or luggage inspection, or let alone no-fly list applies to anyone flying Part 91 or Part 135 operations (Charter, private, GA).

    BL.
     
  8. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    #8
    As long as a passport is acceptable for domestic air travel, right?
     

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