Turkey Reduces the Age of Consent to 12

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Plutonius, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. Plutonius macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #1
    Turkey's court reduced the age of consent to 12 years old.

    Why would we ever want people with their culture in our country ?
     
  2. GrumpyMom macrumors 603

    GrumpyMom

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    #2
    Probably because they would be trying to get away from that craziness themselves and anyone who enters this country or born into this country has to abide by its laws. As long as they are not sneaking in over an unguarded border the process of becoming a legal resident alien usually makes it clear that legal residency is a conditional privilege.

    My mom is an immigrant who comes from a very different culture whose values you probably would not like or care for, but she embraces American values and raised me to be patriotic and respect our laws to the extent I have never even gotten a speeding ticket. And she became a citizen herself and in doing so, in her late 70's pledged to defend our country and meant it. She's a tough old bat and would, too.

    Not every Turkish immigrant is going to be a pedophile just as not every natural born citizen is going to be trustworthy and law abiding. Judge people as individuals on their own merits not on preconceived ideas.

    I knew plenty of Turkish immigrants in college and they seemed to value the same things I did and got along just fine and did not date children.
     
  3. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #3
    I think the main point of this post is the section that I bolded. That sums it up nicely. The perception, right or wrong, is that to many folks are coming over and saying their beliefs and customs should be the law of the land and the U.S. needs to bend to them, not the other way around.
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    Mustafa Kemal would be turning in his grave.
     
  5. GrumpyMom macrumors 603

    GrumpyMom

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    #5
    Well all I know is that the process of becoming a citizen that my mom went through was very strict, very specific and very demanding. So unless the immigrant is lying, they can't retain the idea that any other law should take precedence over the US laws. And if they can't embrace our Constitution, which they are required to know very well and are tested on that knowledge, they can't attain citizenship. And if they can't do that, they can't vote.

    I have read, (but never seen any Muslims where I live do this) that in some places in the US Muslims are trying to get Sharia recognized. I don't know how that's possible if they went through the same vetting process my mother did to become a citizen. I don't know if we are talking about legal resident aliens or what. From what I've read about immigrants with special refugee status from Syria, they had to go through a strict process, too.

    Most of the problems I've seen or read about have come from second generation immigrants or native born diassafected youth becoming radicalized to extremes in theologies. And frankly that could happen to anyone. There is a radical Christian sect in New Zealand that resembles some of the extremist Mormon sects in the USA. They don't have polygamy but they do arrange marriages with brides as young as 12 and these people are white, native born New Zealand Christians.

    I've given up dealing with people as categories and take them as I find them, as individuals.
     
  6. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #6
    From people with more knowledge on Islam, is the 12 year old age of consent a precept of Islam or is this just Turkey ?
     
  7. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #7
    Irving, TX is an example. They use the mediation loophole.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 18, 2016 ---
    This is the "Islamic Tribunal" in Texas. Again, it uses "mediation" as a loophole to conform to sharia law.

    http://www.islamictribunal.org/
     
  8. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #8
  9. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #9
  10. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Its a bit more complicated that just having an age of consent in Islam I think.

    For Sunni -
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age#Islam
    --- Post Merged, Aug 18, 2016 ---
    It was basically a loophole for statutory rape that the US turned a blind eye to.
     
  11. GrumpyMom macrumors 603

    GrumpyMom

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    #11
    Their prophet apparently set a precedent in taking a 6 year old as his bride and consummating the marriage when she was 9 is how the story is often told. This source attempts to throw that into doubt: http://www.discoveringislam.org/aisha_age.htm

    Child marriage/ child trafficking is as much a cultural problem and a poverty problem as it is a religious problem. Look worldwide and you will see alarming accounts and alarming statistics on child exploitation and particularly the treatment of women as property.

    Even in the USA, look at history. Take the happenings in Gone With The Wind for example. Scarlett's mother was married at 13. Singer Loretta Lynn was married at 15. Then there's that poor train wreck of a child Courteney Stodden married to a 51 year old at age 16 by an exploitative mother. That happened just a few years ago and the girl is going further off the rails with every headline.

    If you read the article you linked to you see Turkey is trying to strengthen the ability to go after child abusers but in a really wonky way. And there is backlash against this within Turkey. My uncle worked there for a few years for General Electric I believe, and lived there with my aunt. The Turks aren't cave people.
     
  12. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #12
    Heck what you described isn't just about the Muslims, granted that is what we hear about, but also other cultures, especially if you live in one of the states that borders Mexico.

    The bolded section is spot on.
     
  13. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #13
    Yes. Exactly this.
     
  14. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #14
    Is anyone familiar with what is told to the immigrants coming into the country ?

    It probably would not be a problem if they are specifically told what portions of the Sharia do not apply (can not be followed) in the US and that the immigrant agrees with it.

    Guest to our country should follow our laws and we shouldn't bend to their culture.
     
  15. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #15
    Man, Pluto. Please tell me you didn't just lump all Turks into one big pot. :( Way to go..

    As for the topic: I read about it this morning but there was a substantial lack of info and given the current black/white fever causing all kinds of stupid comments and reactions within this world I will rather wait a bit before rushing to conclusions. especially since we all know that the devil lies in the detail - especially when talking about laws. So who knows, maybe this is a clarification re sex between two minors with consent? Should two 15yo who sleep with each other automatically be charged for rape?

    Btw. I read not too long ago a frigthening article in the New Yorker about that public list in the US containing all kinds of offenders - for example that poor 7yo (or younger) who let down their pants once on the playground and got sued (!) by other parents* and now are more than a decade later still on that public pillory list and get harrassed, fired for no other reason and threatened if not worse. Yea, I hope that culture never finds it's way (back) to Europe..
     
  16. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #16
    Yep, it's pretty easy to get on a list (sex offenders, no fly, etc.) and very tough (if not impossible) to get off.
     
  17. BeefCake 15 macrumors 65816

    BeefCake 15

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    #17
    Turkey is a secular nation that doesn't abide by Sharia law...how did the two get mixed together in this thread exactly?
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #18
    Well Erdogan is moving Turkey towards a sharia compliant state...
     
  19. colourfastt macrumors 6502a

    colourfastt

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    #19
    A bit of a comparison:

    12: Phillipines, Mexico (varies from 12 to 15 depending on the state), Turkey
    13: Japan
    14: Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Portugal, China,
    15: Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Greece, Iceland, Monaco, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Cambodia, Aruba, Sinnt Maarten
    16: Andorra, Belarus, Belgium, Finland, Georgia, Kosovo, Latvia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain (effective 1 July 2015; age of consent of 12 was introduced in 1995, and was raised to 13 in 1999), Switzerland, UK, Brunei, Israel (for sexual penetration unless the person being penetrated is over 16 then the age of consent is 14; for sexual contact that doesn't involve penetration then the age of consent is 14), Barbados, Belize (for females; no minimum limit established for males), Canada (since 2008; was 14 previously)
     
  20. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Erdogan doesn't like secularism.
     
  21. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #21
    Not for long.
     
  22. Plutonius thread starter macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #22
    Thank you for posting the list. I always thought it was at least 16 in all the civilized countries.
     
  23. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #23
    The list is not true.
    In Italy, for example, you need to be over 18. Only a special court can allow marriage at 16 or 17 if there are extreme circumstances.
     
  24. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    You mean unsourced data on the Internet isn't true?

    Is that even legal?
     
  25. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #25
    Let me guess: they are using perfectly legal out-of-court methods to resolve legal conflicts. How dare they? :rolleyes: After all, not paying a fortune to lawyers is downright un-American.
     

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