Turkey, U.S. sign deal to train and equip Syrian opposition

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-u-sign-deal-train-equip-syrian-opposition-184828671.html

    war·mon·ger
    ˈwôrˌməNGɡər/
    noun
    noun: war-monger
    a sovereign or political leader or activist who encourages or advocates aggression or warfare toward other nations or groups.


    never ending war, awesome. hope a republican makes it into office in 2016, this way some liberals might once again find their back bone & protest against war.
     
  2. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #2
    Do you realize how much this and most gun-rights people's advocacy of the 2nd Amendment have in common? What you call "warmonger" is the same exact thing, when put against you, is "the right to defend myself".

    Additionally, training someone or a group to defend themselves is in no way, shape, or form encouraging or advocating aggression or warfare. If so, then every 2A lover would fall under that same category of warmonger.

    Since you advocate gun rights under the 2A, are you a warmonger?

    Again, we aren't at war. And also, do you not realize that the past 3 reds who have attempted or won the election for POTUS also has advocated for a never-ending war?

    James Hetfield said it perfectly in King Nothing:

    BL.
     
  3. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #3
    That seems a very roundabout way of getting to where you want to go.

    ISIS is operating in Turkey's back yard. Most of the population of Turkey is Muslim. Turkey seems like an excellent partner to have if we are to avoid getting into a wider war against ISIS or elsewhere in the Middle East.

    Lastly, without a draft it seems highly unlikely you will ever see massive anti-war demonstrations among young people (or anybody else) here in the United States.
     
  4. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #4
    what a neat twisting of meanings :rolleyes:

    ----------

    I would really love it if there was a draft, mandatory, no exceptions.
     
  5. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #5
    Train and equip what Syrian opposition?

    Turkey hates Shi'ite Syria more than they fear ISIS, so I doubt they really care who gets the weapons. And we certainly don't know who are "the good guys."

    Obama doesn't have clue one what he is doing. He is the worst foreign policy president in American history, and that includes Dubya.
     
  6. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #6
    Not for nothing, but you should read up on William Henry Harrison's foreign policy before stating that Obama, let alone any other POTUS has the worst foreign policy.

    BL.
     
  7. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #7
    Well, maybe ever was a little hyperbolic. More like the worst since LBJ (who, let's be honest, wasn't that bad except for Vietnam.)
     
  8. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #8
    terrorist of course.
     
  9. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #9
    Obama continues to validate Santayana.
     
  10. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #10
    We need someone to take ISIS's place as the enemy once the bombing campaign finally causes them to collapse, so we need to find someone to train to take over that role.
     
  11. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #11
    I think this verse is more poignant

    "And it all crashes down
    And you break your crown
    And you point your finger
    But there's no one around

    Just want one thing
    Just to play the king
    But the castle crumbled
    And you've left with just a name"
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    Assad?
     
  13. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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  14. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #14
    Back on topic, especially regarding warmonger, with the definition provided in the OP:

    What is the difference between training these people, and boot camp at Ft. Bliss, Ft. Leavenworth, Or Red Flag exercises at Nellis AFB for our armed forces? Both are ordered so by a political leader or activist who advocates aggression or warfare, so they both match the above definition. So does that mean that every POTUS we elect is a warmonger? And to extend that, by right, since the people and the electoral college elect the POTUS, does that mean that we, the people of the United States, are all warmongers?

    Not trying to twist words, but seeking clarity, because it sounds like statements geared toward the POTUS should also be geared towards everyone else, because it isn't just Obama at this point. that term would describe every POTUS going back to Washington.

    BL.
     
  15. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    first of all, do you agree Obamas actions fit the description?

    second.

     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #16
    He's authorized training and equipping another nations troops, either for defensive purposes, or to prepare them for a direct offense against ISIS at the behest of the Turkish government.

    That's more an act of enabling than it is warmongering.
     
  17. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #17
    No, I don't. Because by nature of our Constitution by doing this, he is providing for the common defense, just like our armed forces would be providing for that same defense; just as the same as 2A advocates.

    All of them are well within the bounds of our laws.

    You left out the other conditional: OR GROUPS. Groups is all inclusive. That would mean everyone, so my question still stands. What is the difference between this, and what we do for training our own armed forces, as both match your definition?

    BL.
     
  18. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #18
    If we aren't going to commit, we should just retire from the situation and let the Arabs and Muslims sort it out.

    Whoever is left standing, we create trade deals with those people.

    Nothing good can come from half-assing GWOT. Go all in, or get all out.
     
  19. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Can someone explain to me why it’s OK for the US to arm and train Anti Government forces in Syria, but it’s WRONG for Russia to do the same in Ukraine?
     
  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #20
    I think both are wrong.
     
  21. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    because Obama can do no wrong, wait, the U.S are the "good" guys, EVERYONE else is a terrorist:eek:

    ----------

    do you mean terrorist?

    ----------

    common defense against who? Syria?
    2.perhaps you missed the part that addresses other nations. he is using a terrorist group to undermine another nation (Syria), just like he did with Libya.
     
  22. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Because Russia (along with Britain, and the USA) signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994.

    Basically, in exchange for Ukraine giving up all its nuclear weapons, the other signatories (but basically Russia) agreed not to interfere in Ukraine's internal politics; and to respect the borders of Ukraine as then demarcated.

    Thats why.

    (And there is no similar document, signed by anyone, agreeing not to interfere in an armed rebellion in Syria.)

    If we are to expect any other country to peacefully give up its nuclear weapons (Israel, Pakistan, India?) under similar circumstances in the future - those countries need to have some reassurance that the commitments of countries like the USA and Britain actually mean something.

    Sorry for ruining everyone's day with troublesome things like facts.
     
  23. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #23
    In all seriousness, I would much prefer it if the Netherlands would train and equip Kurds in Northeastern Syria and Northern/Northwestern Iraq to defend Kurdish territories against ISIL. You must know someone in der Staten-Generaal you could ask to introduce such a measure.

    You do have a good point. Why is that the U.S. always has to do this?


    As for your point about Ukraine? Do you think the Russian troops in Ukraine are actually Ukrainian "rebels"?
     
  24. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #24
    Yeah. They are just to give them up
     
  25. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #25
    Conscription is a really awkward point right now for a few reasons. The main one is that it's applied unequally across both social classes and genders, with many strange edge cases. It's also unlikely that trying to expand it to a more uniform coverage would be politically popular. The only positive I can really see to it is that uniformly applied conscription would make it impossible for people to easily accept any declaration of war outside US borders.
     

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