Turkey warns partnership with US in 'jeopardy'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    This is what happens when you have two idiots in places of power. Trump has no idea what he is doing and Erdogan is a power mad despot, intent on taking Turkey down the road to fundamentalist tyranny. A long time NATO ally is being farther marginalised by a know nothing American regime intent on looking tough for their evangelical base. No-one is going to win in this battle.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/turkey-warns-partnership-jeopardy-180811082107365.html
     
  2. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    So what should we do? bow down to them and give them F-35 fighters? Erdogan is a dictator, who consolidated power after the failed coup and imprisoned thousands of political rivals. What is it Trump should do exactly?
     
  3. Expobill Suspended

    Expobill

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    #3
  4. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    We're gonna have to exile your kitten to Turkey, where Erdogan will feed her to his pet Lions.
     
  5. Expobill Suspended

    Expobill

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    #5
    with all her fur, their lions will have hairballs until the next regime take over.
    since she not fully litterbox trained, Kazaara will crap on every Persian rug in Istanbul.
    this also mean every american straford terrier dog in turkey will hafta gallop to lady liberty.
    who thought pet animals and foreign relations can be so much fun!
     
  6. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #6
    So let's analyze that latest financial attack on Turkey's Lira which was basically a financial attack on Turkey. Who would be behind all this and why?

    We all know that Turkey was to buy F-35's from the US but who opposed such a thing?

    https://breakingdefense.com/2018/06/israel-to-us-dont-sell-f-35s-to-turkey/

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201805301064952548-israel-advanced-f35-turkey-block-commentary/

    With America not selling F-35's to Turkey, Turkey opted to buy S-400's from Russia and guess who was unhappy about that?

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201806151065435294-s400-turkey-russia-war-iran/

    With Turkey acquiring Defense capacities from Russia after Israel pressuring US to block F-35 sales to Turkey who would be upset with all this? How does one get back at Turkey with all this?


    In 2017 Turkey exported roughly 1 Million tons of steel to the US.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...l-war-on-turkey-dashes-hope-of-export-revival

    Trade between the two countries has been good. Who would want this to go bad and why?

    https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/europe/turkey
     
  7. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #7

    So, what's you point, exactly? Turkey is a NATO member, they should not be buying any munitions, or technology from the Russian Federation, period. The actions of Erdogan is indefensible, with the massive arrests of political dissidents. The postponement of transfer is temporary. It's a 90 day pentagon report to Congress, to analyze the risks of selling F-35 to Turkey under it's current state. Has nothing to do with Trump.
     
  8. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #8
    Is there an agreement that they had which stated that no NATO member could buy any weapons or arms from Russia ?
     
  9. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #9

    The whole idea of NATO is to protect against the Soviet Union/Post Soviet Russian Federation aggression. Why would the United States and it's allies want to transfer advanced weapons of warfare to a NATO member that would buy military equipment and cooperate with said entity, the main adversary it's establishment is based on? That makes no sense.
     
  10. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #10
    If there was such an attack it would only have accelerated something that was bound to happen sooner or later.

    - Turkey has been overspending for at least a decade
    - Erdogan made sure that it clear that foreign investors could not rely on "rule of law" to apply
    - Erdogan being in bed with ISIS early on and fueling up the Kurdish conflict made Turkey less safe
    - Erdogan insulting and threatening Germany made it a less popular holiday destination

    -> something had to give sooner or later
     
  11. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68040

    Ulenspiegel

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    #11
    Food for thoughts, extracts:

    "For NATO, the trouble with the S-400 weapons system is that it is not technologically compatible with the systems it has in place in Turkey - in other words, Erdogan seems to have decided to build a military capacity independent of NATO. "It makes sense [for the Turkish government]," explained Guney Yildiz, Turkey specialist at the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR), "because if everything is integrated with NATO, NATO commanders have full control over Turkish military systems."

    "On the other hand, a Russian missile system also means Russian control. This is a missile defense system that is going to be hosted by the Turkish air force, and the Turkish air force has no experience of anti-missile systems, therefore it is going to come with a significant number of Russian advisors, trainers, and operators and so on. So at the top of the Turkish air force defense architecture, you're going to have Russians."

    "A nationally controlled defense system has become a strategic priority for the upper echelons of the Turkish government in recent years. They feel they might need a non-NATO air defense system in case they come under attack by some factions in their own military."

    "Russia has discovered that it can influence Turkish foreign policy through supporting Turkey's military industry. And if the United States and European Union are unwilling to do the same thing, then actually Turkey might feel compelled to move away from the western orbit and closer to Russia. Russia has a very clear strategy of driving a wedge between Turkey and the United States, and particularly between Turkey and Germany."
     
  12. cube macrumors P6

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    #12
    I thought the US does not want to deliver F-35's to Turkey because the latter ordered S-400's, not the reverse.

    Note that the US is now OK with India buying S-400's, but they are not purchasing F-35's.
     
  13. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #13
    Missing from this discussion is any reference to the fact that Turkey is also a strong supporter of Qatar, a country that has been subject to a Saudi and UAE led boycott - aimed at economic strangulation - for just over a year.
     
  14. cube macrumors P6

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    #14
    And Israel and Greece are against Turkey getting F-35's.
     
  15. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #15

    ...And why do you think that is? What has Qatar been up to, that lead them to be boycotted? Perhaps It's because they support terrorist entities?

    How many times in the past has Turkey violated Greece's air space?
     
  16. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #16
    This was assuming that Turkey and Russia were to be on bad terms but if they were on good terms is there an agreement that stated that they could not be on good terms or buy any military weapons from them.?
    --- Post Merged, Aug 18, 2018 ---
    Do you know what Israel has been up to which has lead to Boycotts?

    You are bringing up violating air space..? Do you know how many times Israel has violated its neighbor’s air space?
     
  17. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #17
    To be honest, I think that your analysis is a little simplistic.

    There is more to it than that: Here are a few points to ponder.

    Qatar is home to Al Jazeera - which KSA requested (actually demanded) be shut down (believing it to have been a contributory factor in what has been described as the "Arab Spring"), which destabilised autocratic regimes across parts of the Arab and Islamic world.

    Moreover, as Qatar produces gas, it is not subject to OPEC (which governs the production of oil) and thus, is entirely economically independent of politics and pressures of the oil producing states, an unfortunate state of affairs from the perspective of KSA.

    The fact that Qatar sought to develop a very large gas field which straddles the border between Qatar and Iran (thus, seeking better relations with a country ruled by and inhabited by, people subscribing to Shi'ia Islam,) may also have been a bone of contention with KSA.

    Another area of difference was the fact that long before MBS became the crown prince and clear power behind the throne in KSA, Qatar had been espousing a considerably more flexible interpretation of the structures of Islam - something which went down rather badly in KSA, which arrogates to itself the right to define such things. This stance is buttressed by the fact that KSA is home to Mecca and Medina, two of the holiest shrines in Islam, as undertaking a pilgrimage to Mecca in the course of your life fulfils one of the Five Pillars of Islam.
     
  18. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #18
    Which creates reasonable doubt of whom could be behind the financial attack on Turkey. Surely Greece does not have this capability as their own financial system has been in trouble and Greece does not have a lobby like AIPAC in Washington to influence Trump’s s decisions. Trump’s daughter is also not married to anyone From Greece nor does Trump’s main inner circle party consists of people Fromm Greece.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 18, 2018 ---
    Turkey was to purchase those from Russia if the US would not sell/Supply Turkey with the F-35’s it wanted to purchase. It would not give Russians secrets to American stealth as Turkey was not selling or giving the Russians the F-35’s
     
  19. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #19

    The F-35 is a 5th gen multi-role stealth aircraft. The S-400 is one of Moscow's most advanced surface to air missile defense systems. Why would the US allow Turkey to have American made 5th gen aircraft, while they receive S-400 and support staff from Moscow? To put it in more simple terms, it would give the Russians the secrets to American stealth, AKA Espionage.
     
  20. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #20

    http://www.atimes.com/article/turkeys-controversial-s-400-transfer-is-a-done-deal/

    "Ankara finalized a deal to buy the Russian defense system last December and is poised to become the first Nato member state to operate it. The United States and other Nato allies claim the S-400 cannot be integrated into the Atlantic alliance’s defense shield as it poses problems of interoperability. As Russia will assist Turkey in deploying the S-400, Washington is concerned that Moscow could have access to Nato’s codes, systems and technology, as well as technical information on the F-35A Lightning II jet.

    The pro-government Daily Sabah quoted a senior Turkish official as saying that Ankara was trying to ease allies’ concerns. The idea is to prevent Russian military technicians from assembling and running the S-400 on Turkish soil. That work will have to be done by Turkish military personnel after it has received training in Russia."


    It's unlikely that Russian technicians won't be part of the assembly and data collection, thus it's a risk too big to take.
     
  21. cube macrumors P6

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  22. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #22
    Apparently a contract was signed back in 1999 to buy these F-35’s
    https://m.bianet.org/english/world/...orarily-stops-delivery-of-f-35-jets-to-turkey
     
  23. cube macrumors P6

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    #23
    Program member since 1999, level 3 partner since 2002.
     
  24. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #24
  25. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #25
    Amigo. Is money green?
     

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72 August 11, 2018