MP 7,1 Two Radeon Pro Vega IIs Or Pro Vega II Duo for 3 x XDRs @ 6K?

spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
Hi everyone, been following a lot of your contributions on here about the XDR Displays, and wonder if you might be able to help me out.

I need to drive 3 no. XDR displays together at full 6K resolution and would like to know what available graphic card(s) to put in an order for a 2019 Mac Pro.

Apple Mac Pro online sales page says the AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 is needed - but from what I can tell this has 4 thunderbolt ports - yet there is a pile of confusing information on the Apple support pages about using separate buses on the Vega Card to get 6k. (ie port use port 1 and port 3 only, not port 1 and 2 or 3 and 4). To me that suggests only 2 ports can do 6K on the card.

So I can't tell if I need Two Radeon Pro Vega IIs @ €6240 (Does this give you 8 ports?) or do I need a AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 (Does this give you 4 ports or 8 ports)

Appreciate your advice.
 

5xdr

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2020
4
0
NM
I am running 5 XDRs with Two Pro Vega II Duos @ full resolution, but there have been MANY glitches.
 

spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
I am running 5 XDRs with Two Pro Vega II Duos @ full resolution, but there have been MANY glitches.
Ok, I note you said 2 x Pro Vega II Duos.

Mind me asking how did you configure 2 of those 6 grand (12 grand for 2 right?) graphic cards to go inside the Mac Pro?
They are not showing as available on the online store as stand alone items, and you can only ad one to the configurator?

Also what glitches have you noticed?
 

5xdr

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2020
4
0
NM
My workflow does not require 5.
My pics would show 1 H and 4 V.
The main glitches occur coming out of sleep or after turning off the displays.
- - Post merged: - -

Ok, I note you said 2 x Pro Vega II Duos.

Mind me asking how did you configure 2 of those 6 grand (12 grand for 2 right?) graphic cards to go inside the Mac Pro?
They are not showing as available on the online store as stand alone items, and you can only ad one to the configurator?

Also what glitches have you noticed?
Apple configured everything.
 

jasoncarle

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2006
238
127
Minnesota
Ok, I note you said 2 x Pro Vega II Duos.

Mind me asking how did you configure 2 of those 6 grand (12 grand for 2 right?) graphic cards to go inside the Mac Pro?
They are not showing as available on the online store as stand alone items, and you can only ad one to the configurator?

Also what glitches have you noticed?

Not only does the Apple website show a picture of the Mac Pro with TWO of the Pro Vega 2 Duo MPX modules inside it, it is indeed a configurable option...
 

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spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
My workflow does not require 5.
My pics would show 1 H and 4 V.
The main glitches occur coming out of sleep or after turning off the displays.
- - Post merged: - -


Apple configured everything.
Noted Apple configured it for you.
How are you physically connecting the 5 x Tunderbolt cables coming from the screens to the tower? Which ports?

Also can you elaborate on the glitches your seeing from sleep and power off? What is happening?
 

rkuo

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2010
723
320
This might be derailing a bit but how do you use that many monitors? I have 3 27 inch and even that seems to be a bit much as the monitors reach so far to the side that turning my head that far is uncomfortable.
 

spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
Not only does the Apple website show a picture of the Mac Pro with TWO of the Pro Vega 2 Duo MPX modules inside it, it is indeed a configurable option...
Apologies you are of course correct, I got confused looking at the options on the site.
On the photos you have seen can you see how many TB ports are on each Pro Vega II Duo?
 
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jasoncarle

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2006
238
127
Minnesota
can you see how many TB ports are on each Pro Vega II Duo?
There are 4 thunderbolt ports on the back of each, I assume. I only have 1 module, so I don't know if that changes with 2 of them, but I doubt it.
- - Post merged: - -

Everything you want to know, perhaps.

 

spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
There are 4 thunderbolt ports on the back of each, I assume. I only have 1 module, so I don't know if that changes with 2 of them, but I doubt it.
- - Post merged: - -

Everything you want to know, perhaps.


The photo you posted above of the 2 cards, shows 2 x Pro Vega's, not 2 x Duo's.
Please note I'm not being pedantic. I am just confused at some of apples claims that 1 x Pro Vega Duo can run 4 XDR displays (but they don't say if this is at 6k), in addition I'm following both this tread and another on the accessories / display forum here.
 

jasoncarle

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2006
238
127
Minnesota
The photo you posted above of the 2 cards, shows 2 x Pro Vega's, not 2 x Duo's.
Please note I'm not being pedantic. I am just confused at some of apples claims that 1 x Pro Vega Duo can run 4 XDR displays (but they don't say if this is at 6k), in addition I'm following both this tread and another on the accessories / display forum here.
You're right, good catch, however it still shows as a configurable option.
- - Post merged: - -

from this link:

 

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spacedesign911

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 22, 2010
182
11
Dublin, Ireland
You're right, good catch, however it still shows as a configurable option.
Yes, absolutly configurable, and as you correctly said, 4 TB ports, what I am struggling with is the support doc here says 2 TB bus's drive the 4 ports, and to only use port 1 and port 3 or 2 and 4 of the card to run the XDRs at 6k, so I can't figure out how 1 x Duo Card can possibly run 4 XDRs at 6k!!!!
 

5xdr

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2020
4
0
NM
Noted Apple configured it for you.
How are you physically connecting the 5 x Tunderbolt cables coming from the screens to the tower? Which ports?

Also can you elaborate on the glitches your seeing from sleep and power off? What is happening?
----------

top duo X 0 X 0
bottom duo 0 X 0 X
back 0 X

on wakening - mission control screens order is often changed - screens take several "tries"
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,895
1,752
Yes, absolutly configurable, and as you correctly said, 4 TB ports, what I am struggling with is the support doc here says 2 TB bus's drive the 4 ports, and to only use port 1 and port 3 or 2 and 4 of the card to run the XDRs at 6k, so I can't figure out how 1 x Duo Card can possibly run 4 XDRs at 6k!!!!
The MPX modules also all supply DisplayPort (DP) streams to the the TB ports on the Mac Pro. The XDR monitors do not necessarily have to be plugged into the ports directly on the card to hook the GPU display output to an XDR display.

The Vega II Duo may not do 4 XDR monitors. I think it probably can do three, but Apple's docs are a bit vague (***). A 3 XDR configuration would be on on the card TB Bus 0 , on the card TB bus 1 , and one on the top/front TB bus. [ The 2nd GPU on the duo card is assigned to feeding 2 DP streams for the host attached TB ports (and skewed to the top TB bus). According to Apple's tech specs the Duo card feeds 4 DP streams into the system ( like the 580X ). The Vega II "Solo" (and W5700X) only feed two DP streams into the system. So that single GPU fees it so the I/O Cards TB ports is a secondary XDR connection option. ). So the second GPU is probably only going 'buy' one more XDR than the 'Solo' model. It could buy two more XDR if the 2nd GPU feeds all four DP streams into the internal distribution system. [ so it depends upon how much Apple copied the design from the single GPU cards over to the primary GPU on the Duo card. If it has split duties of edge and internal like the single GPU modules then the XDR count will be lower. If it is edge port only then can toss more XDR driving load onto the 2nd GPU. The support docs and tech specs don't very clearly 100% line up on that issue ]


If dogmatically attached to feeding the XDR monitors directly from the ports on the MPX modules then would need two Vega II modules ( or mix in a W5700X if wait for one of those to come out).

The TB ports on the edge of the MPX modules are not directly hooked to the GPU. The GPU DisplayPort output it hooked to a TB controller ( pragmatically essentially what Apple calls a "TB Bus" ) and that controller provisions the TB ports.

The XDR takes two DP streams. A single Thunderbolt controller can only take two DP streams. One TB controller provisions two TB ports. So if plug into an XDR to a port covered by a TB controller its DP resources are spent. There is no video coming out of the other port in that particular pair. ( similar with corner case if use the HDMI port on the cards as that socket is bleeds a single DP stream off of TB bus 0 of that card. So only have one DP stream left which isn't sufficient for XDR at full resolution. )



(***) The Vega II Duo support page isn't explicitly enumerating all possible configurations. It outlines a path to two XDR connections. IMHO, the path to a 3rd XDR is awkward (only a top port) and would run quite contrary to most users conceptualization of what to do ( i.e., hook a monitor to a port on the back of the system just like previous generations of systems. ). If the Duo's 2nd GPU to doing both top/front and back then there is a back option also (just not directly off the card edge).
- - Post merged: - -

----------

top duo X 0 X 0
bottom duo 0 X 0 X
back 0 X

on wakening - mission control screens order is often changed - screens take several "tries"
Have you tried hooking the 5th to the top/front. Depending upon how Apple wired up the internal provisioning that may help.
 
Last edited:

s66

macrumors regular
Dec 12, 2016
192
134
I'm afraid what you do is only going to get you 5K on one of them or if it does 6K, it'll be an unsupported config.


:
"
Connect displays to two Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Modules
You can connect up to twelve displays using Thunderbolt 3 in these configurations:
  • Four Pro Display XDRs with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz connected to Bus 0 on each card and Bus 1 on each card, and two 5K displays connected to the Thunderbolt 3 ports on the top* and rear of your Mac Pro. Connect one display for each location.
[...]
"
4 XDRs, not 5.
 

5xdr

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2020
4
0
NM
6 XDRs, not 4.


Supported display configurations
Mac Pro supports the following display configurations depending on the graphics cards installed.
6K displays
  • Two Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to a single Radeon Pro 580X MPX Module, Radeon Pro Vega II MPX Module, or Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Module.
  • Four Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to two Radeon Pro Vega II MPX Modules.
  • Six Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to two Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Modules
 

s66

macrumors regular
Dec 12, 2016
192
134
6 XDRs, not 4.


Supported display configurations
Mac Pro supports the following display configurations depending on the graphics cards installed.
6K displays
  • Two Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to a single Radeon Pro 580X MPX Module, Radeon Pro Vega II MPX Module, or Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Module.
  • Four Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to two Radeon Pro Vega II MPX Modules.
  • Six Pro Display XDRs or 6K displays with resolutions of 6016 x 3384 at 60Hz when connected to two Radeon Pro Vega II Duo MPX Modules
Yes, but that very same page has a link to a page for how to connect them and then all of a sudden 6 becomes 4 :

Apple might have to clear this up in the end. But it's not 100% sure it's supported. There might be a snafu or two.
 

straightMacin

macrumors regular
Dec 6, 2019
104
62
Chicago, IL
Is there a way I can test if 3x XDR's work with my single Vega II without purchasing a third XDR? I have two already running, but am craving the third!

EDIT: I did notice that on the Tech Specs page for the Mac PRO, that they updated the number of XDR's that are supported by each graphics card. The Vega II now states only two are supported...:/
 

s66

macrumors regular
Dec 12, 2016
192
134
Is there a way I can test if 3x XDR's work with my single Vega II without purchasing a third XDR? I have two already running, but am craving the third!
Buy it online and if it doesn't work as expected (also check sleep and waking etc.) return it.
But the grey area of support is not on the Vega II, only on the Vega II duo as far as I can tell.
 

tolsen718

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
1
I escalated a ticket through Apple Support all the way to Engineering. They have confirmed that the support document that states that 2 Vega II Duos can support 6 XDRs at 6K resolution is correct, and that the document stating that 2 Vega II Duos can only support a max of 4 XDRs plus 2 5k monitors is incorrect. They will correct the latter to match the former.
 

efluxdesign

macrumors member
May 14, 2020
83
98
It's indeed 2 XDR's per Vega II (duo or single) as they both have the same # of thunderbolt controllers - the W5700X supports 3 on each card, as it outputs the display signal using DSC (display stream compression).

No need to purchase and then return for no reason. The W5700X is the better option if you need more displays, but is a little less powerful with less VRAM depending on your usage case.

That's a hell of a lot of 6K display goodness though - what on earth do you use 6 displays for?? :)
 

tolsen718

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2019
6
1
Apple's support doc actually says that with 2 W5700X's you will need to plug 2 into each card and then 2 directly into the Mac Pro if you want to attach 6 XDRs. The W5700X's do not support 3 6ks directly attached (according to the doc). Support document is here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210968 . And as I just mentioned earlier, the Vega II Duos support the same, as far as number of displays go. There has been a misunderstanding due to an error in the Vega II duo doc but Apple will be correcting it. Now, could there be an error in the W5700X doc? maybe?
 

straightMacin

macrumors regular
Dec 6, 2019
104
62
Chicago, IL
Apple's support doc actually says that with 2 W5700X's you will need to plug 2 into each card and then 2 directly into the Mac Pro if you want to attach 6 XDRs. The W5700X's do not support 3 6ks directly attached (according to the doc). Support document is here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210968 . And as I just mentioned earlier, the Vega II Duos support the same, as far as number of displays go. There has been a misunderstanding due to an error in the Vega II duo doc but Apple will be correcting it. Now, could there be an error in the W5700X doc? maybe?
I've connected 3x XDR's straight to the W5700 without any issues (all three connected to the card). I've also used 3x XDR's with a single Vega II Mono with two going to the card and one going to the I/O card. A pair of Vega II Mono's should support 6x XDR's as well.
 
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