Two-thirds of the Navy strike fighter jets can't fly

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by daflake, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/us-navy-planes-grounded/index.html

    This is a huge problem. We have an awesome military, but it is only as good as its equipment and that is apparently complete garbage.

    The Army is also in bad shape...
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    Sustained war is expensive and I think the US populace is exhausted from paying for it.
     
  3. daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    It is and I am all for allowing the rest of the world to police itself, but when we let our own troops suffer with crappy equipment, I have a problem with that.
     
  4. Huntn, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    The result of 2 decades of being in a state of war. Someday the country will ask itself if it was worth it? Our system was not designed for this, our leadership has dropped the ball on paying for their play time through taxation. Oh, but you can't have that because then everyone would be mad and not reelect us.

    We are a bankrupt country in our morals and responsibility, and arguably bankrupt fiscally until we the citizens and until the Republicans in Congress can look the American public in the face and say that they and we willl be responsible adults, we will pay our debts without taking lunch money from poor children.
     
  5. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #5
    No doubt, if you are going to war you better be able to equip the people on the front lines. Do it right or don't do it at all.
     
  6. daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    When I was in, it was normal to have an Apache in the hangar (aka the hangar queen) that we cannibalized parts off of if needed. I was talking to one of the guys here and he said they have 4 of them just sitting in the hangar awaiting a lot of parts. How is this even acceptable? We slashed the budgets so deeply that they can't even sustain their gear. Sad...

    War does take its toll sadly...
     
  7. velocityg4 macrumors 68040

    velocityg4

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    #7
    It's not that they don't have the resources, they do. They are just wasting it in areas like the F-35 project. Which could have paid for much of the upkeep and upgrades of current systems. The total costs of the latest Iraq and Afghanistan war would have paid for everything. If we stuck around and actually stabilized the region and instilled democracy. Perhaps there would have been a long term benefit, as there was with Germany and Japan. Just blowing a place up and leaving a huge power vacuum doesn't help.
     
  8. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #8
    We should have paid for the wars with a 90% top tax bracket like in WWII not with tax cuts.
     
  9. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #9
    It's not just war. It's Congress (mostly GOP) believing in the austerity fairy. Oh sure, we can have a strong military and cut taxes as well. :rolleyes: Just don't think too much about the people on active duty and those who have return from service. Let them eat cake.
     
  10. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #10
    I guess $600 billion a year isn't enough.

    Cry me a ****ing river. I'm done with this constant ass-kissing for the US military. If they don't have enough money to keep their airplanes flying, then maybe they - like everyone else on God's green earth - ought to re-examine some of their priorities. $600 billion a year, and a major part of the taxes I pay is all the "Thank You" I think I'm obligated to give.

    Stop whining, you sad little bitches.
     
  11. daflake, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017

    daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #11

    You're right, we should stop trying to technically advance our military. You know, we don't need it.

    Meanwhile Russia (or other nations) continues to advance theirs to the point that they can jam and block most of what we own without even firing a shot.

    I love people who live in the bubble of "we will never be attacked".

    You can't stop building a military until the world is all lovey dovey with each other. Sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon. FYI, I am fine with cutting the fat, but when the F-18 has been around since 78 and we can't repair the ones that are currently broken. That money has NOTHING to do with development funds, so the budget was cut on the wrong side. That, my friend, was done by Obama.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    The cost of deterrent is high. The cost of lack of deterrent is even higher. Perhaps if we stop invading, bombing and otherwise annoying the rest of the world, we can start reducing our military budget as the risks fade. Until then we need the military to be able to take on at least 2-3 or our potential enemies at once (because that's how the next world war will go down, even if our adversaries do not actually form a formal alliance).

    I do agree with you though about the waste - F35, new aircraft carriers, littoral combat ships, shells for the Zumwalt destroyers (work fine but prohibitively expensive), etc. Seriously the magnitude of the waste is treasonous and heads really should roll. We cannot afford the pork, for I fear where months or at most a few years from a major war (that is, unless we can deter our potential adversaries). FFS does nobody in Congress, government, or the Pentagon ever read about the historical roots of WWII?

    In any case, the first step is to get every plane, ship, tank and helicopter operational.
     
  13. vrDrew, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Do you want to know why all these F/A-18s can't fly? Why they have to keep so many airframes around to cannibalize them for parts?

    Because they are old. That's why. Old airplanes, like old cars, old buildings, old boats, and old human bodies - are expensive to keep operating.

    But the sh*tgibbon we have for a President keeps threatening to cancel the *new* airplane (the F-35C and B) we have in development. Because penny-wise, and dollar foolish, politicians keep cutting the orders to the point that *new* airframes become absurdly expensive on a per-unit basis.

    The US military spends nearly half a billion dollars a year on bands. They buy $11,000 flutes and $12,000 tubas. There are more than 6.500 full-time military musicians. And not just traditional marching bands. No - they've got military bluegrass pickers, calypso groups, and jazz quartets.

    So, count me supremely unimpressed with bleats about the inability of the US military to keep sufficient spare parts for their worn-out planes on hand.

    Start cutting some of the bands. Get real about trading in your old crates for some factory-fresh new models. And then maybe I'll take some of your complaints a little more seriously.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #14
    Maybe the US should only buy as many jets as they can afford to maintain......

    Maybe the US should start as many pointless wars as the have the gear to fight....

    And forget about "policing the world", as that just isn't what happening, all the patolling is just for projecting US power in a futil attempt to stay relevant.
     
  15. daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    With that comment I am going to guess that you have never worked on an aircraft. Some of the best flying airframes are the oldest ones. Parts are replaceable and unlike most cars, airframes are easy to mod and add newer parts and capabilities.

    The reason they are down is because the government hasn't allocated enough money of the right color to the Navy to keep them running. Obama is the one that did this, not Trump, so that is something you will need to get used to hearing. You also need to understand how money works in the government. We are not allowed to mix colors of money (keeping it simple for you). Once it is allocated for certain spending, that is where it has to be used. So your little chart above is pretty but that is about it. The big blue and orange areas are actually filled with a **** ton of other colors and can't be merged by law.

    Lastly, I would love to see some sources on that claim for the Bands. I know a lot of people who play in some of these bands, and they usually buy their own instruments (they are given funding to do it but it is not the amount you are claiming). My friend is a trumpet player and is still using the same instrument he bought when he was in high school. Yes, sources please....
     
  16. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #16
    I second this, as I also have friends in the Navy band, and they had to purchase their own instruments.
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    Don't t forget the democrats...
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    One - of many -sources.

     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    As long as Republicans, the blockers, are controlling Congress...

    Democrats would be willing to raise taxes. Maybe they are both afraid of being voted out? Maybe this is a reflection of citizens who want something for nothing.
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #20
    Taxation is theft so I don't support raising them anymore, republicans have not controlled congress the entire two decades you mentioned. Especially for war efforts. Scale things way the hell down
     
  21. daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #21

    So apparently this is a comment, that has not been fact checked, made by Martha McSally (so not really all over the place). While I can appreciate that they do spend a lot in budgeting for these bands, I can assure you that the people I know are not walking around with $11,000 flutes.

    But here is the rub with all of this and proves my point with "color of money". If the band has a budget of, let's just say, $100,000 and they don't spend all that budget in the year, they will lose it next year. So, around August they will go and spend that money on whatever it is allowed to be spent on. The unit can't move the money or spend it on something they may really need like facility repairs because it is allocated to instruments. So, they may have spent it and they may have bought a bunch of crap they didn't need like a $11000 flute. Again, if they didn't, they would lose the budget moving forward and getting it back is almost impossible. The goal is to burn your funds as closely to $0 as possible.

    It is a nasty cycle that, I will freely admit, needs to be fixed. We buy a ton of computer crap every year because of this and there is zero incentive to save and I would rather hire another employee or give some of them the pay raises they deserve.

    So while I agree with Martha in cutting back on military bands when other sectors are in need, I can assure you that not every band member is walking around with a $11000 flute or playing on $80000 pianos.
     
  22. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #22
    Taxation is theft? :rolleyes::rolleyes: and :p. Go find a good anarchy to live in. Everyone will have a gun, so be sure to obtain a bazooka for a leg up. :rolleyes:
     
  23. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #23
    This is actually one of my fields of expertise. There are no $11,000 flutes. Handmade, custom, silver and pearl flutes top out at around $8000. The rest of the article is equally suspect. As I said, the Navy generally requires musicians to provide their own instruments.
     
  24. daflake thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Taxation is only theft if you can't see where it is used. You know, like the USA where the roads are **** and the military is falling apart.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 11, 2017 ---
    No doubt that her comment wasn't fact checked and she was just running her mouth. That being said, it fits Drews agenda so it must be legit. ;)
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #25
    Taxation IS theft. But as mentioned a few times not much issue with it as it finds roads & social programs :p
     

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