U.K. Labour Party has secretly suspended 50 members for anti-Semitic and racist comments

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, May 2, 2016.

  1. aaronvan, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 3, 2016

    aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Shadow education secretary Lucy Powell became the first shadow cabinet minister to acknowledge the party had a problem with anti-semitism. She told Channel 4 News: "There clearly is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour Party otherwise we wouldn't have spent the best part of the last six or seven days talking about it.

    Ilyas Aziz, a Nottingham councillor, was suspended when it emerged that he said on Facebook that “it would be wiser to create Israel in America it’s big enough. They could relocate even now”.

    Salim Mulla, a former mayor of Blackburn, was suspended a few hours later when it was found that he had posted the same graphic proposing Israel’s relocation to the United States.

    Shah Hussain, of Burnley council, tweeted to Israeli footballer Yossi Bennayouyn that “you and your country doing the same thing that hitler did to ur race in ww2”.

    The suspensions that have been made public so far are said to be just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  2. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #2
    I am not a fan of Israel, 5 years ago I would almost support some of these views but today I can not. If these MP's are this critical of Israel/Zionism they should be just as vocal of Islam. The jewish state is not a threat to the world like Islamic states are.
     
  3. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #3
    The "Islamic states" are also not a threat to the world, the Islamic Caliphate, also known as the "Islamic State" is..... Your fundamental misunderstanding of that issue is really quite astounding.

    The fundamental issue with the UK is that the left (those who are being anti zionist) are now being portrayed as anti semitic (because newspaper readership often doesn't actually know the difference), and we've got a right who are anti islam (and many of whom are actually racist), as we can see from the current London Mayoral campaigns.

    This is potentially one of the most depressing eras in UK politics of my adult life.

    Now thats been clarified, as the entire OP is in Strikethrough, which I assume means the OP wants to retract it, should the thread not be closed?
     
  4. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #4
    I'm appalled at the level of hate speech that passes as ordinary discourse in the Labour Party. Frankly, they're all horrible people and the entire lot should be publicly shamed.
     
  5. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #5
    If only you'd share that anger at the racist, islamophobic, homophobic, misogynistic bigots seeking the republican nomination.
     
  6. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #6
    There's barely any hate speech in the Labour party, can you post some examples of what you're referring to?
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #7
    So far as I can tell from what I have seen, the Labour members in question did more than just questions the policies of the state of Israel. Their statements would case great offence to many Jewish people who have nothing to do with Israel. The problem is that political debate has become so polemical both in the UK and US that people are using extreme language and inappropriate statements.

    I do not support many of the policies of Israel, particularity opposing the land-grabbing and economic boycott (let alone the use of military force), but that is an opinion about a government, not about a religion.
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #8
    Well said.
     
  9. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #9
    As usual, whatever point you try to make is drowned in a rhetoric of excessive bile.

    "All horrible people"? "The entire lot"? Sure yet another example of excessive rhetoric?

    Someday, you might learn that debate and discussion is better conducted when the tone of frothing fury is turned down a little.

    Anyway, to accept that elements of the left have long had a problem with anti-semitism disguised as anti-Zionism, (as writers such as Nick Cohen have argued for a while) is not in any the same as making a pathetic and ludicrous statement that they are 'all horrible people' and trying to advance that as an inadequate argument.

    Agreed.
    --- Post Merged, May 3, 2016 ---
    Yes, elements in Labour - and the wider left - have turned a blind eye to this issue for far too long, and failed to hold those who gave voice to these views (anti Semitism disguised as anti-Zionism) to account. Agreed.
     
  10. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #10
    As far as I was aware, the comments that are causing controversies are anti zionist, not anti semitic. I've yet to see otherwise though.
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    There is a difference between Jewish people seeking refuge after WWII and the Zionists before WWI. Even Shah apologized, yet people like Livingstone tried to defend the indefensible.
     
  12. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #12
    This would be a more convincing explanation if the complaints about anti-semitism weren't coming from within the Labour party itself......no doubt the right wing is having a good laugh at Labour's expense as they watch Labour fumbling about
     
  13. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #13
  14. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #14
    Racist and anti-Semitic wreckers are buried deep within Labour's ranks. It is correct in conducting a Stalinist purge to expose these deviationists.
     
  15. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    ISIS is hardly a threat to the world. Pakistan is more of a threat since they have nukes and never seems a million miles away from being a failed state or letting its ego get the best of it and starting another war with India.
     
  16. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #16
    Racism is evil.

    But punishing racist thoughts and statements is problematic, because there is subjectivity (biases) involved.
    Many factual statements about ethnicity can easily be construed as racist commentary and thus lead to restriction on freedom of speech.
     
  17. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #17
    And its all being used as a smokescreen by the BBC to detract from the Tories Islamophobia, which has reared its ugly head in the mayoral election, and the conservatives electoral fraud.

    Complaints are coming from inside the labour party, from those who are unhappy about Corbyn's leadership.... A lot of the complaints are proving to be spurious or taken out of context.

    Its a very depressing time in British politics.
     
  18. Scepticalscribe, May 4, 2016
    Last edited: May 4, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #18
    Yes, there is truth in what you say, but, but there is a large but, - which needs to be addressed - as well. This is an issue in some parts of Labour, and it is an issue which has become somewhat more pronounced since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader, - not that Mr Corbyn himself is an anti-Semite, I don't for one minute think he is - but, because of the views held by some who are thought to be close to him.

    Firstly, precisely because the left have for so long campaigned seeking progressive political and social change on the 'isms', and have been on the 'progressive' side of political divides such as racism, and sexism, gay rights, and the savagely enduring class divide, there is a tendency to be reluctant to admit - or even to be able to see - that some in the left have a problem with anti-semitism which they seek to disguise as anti-Zionism.

    I don't doubt that there are elements of a smoke screen to some of this, and I don't doubt that it intersects with expressions of distaste for the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn, but there is also an uncomfortable truth that an old residual form of anti-Semitism which was found in some elements of the old working class, has fused with a newer form of anti-Semitism that has found expression in some alienated Muslim working class areas - areas where Labour, traditionally, have polled well. Add to that, robust expressions of anti-Zionism, not all of which have been solely motivated by a desire to see justice done to the Palestinians, and you have a nasty little brew in some corners of Labour.

    The writer and commentator Nick Cohen (Jewish and left wing) has been writing about this for years.

    Now, none of this in any way detracts from the fact that the Tories have, most certainly, launched a vicious 'war on the poor' (rather than on poverty, and eliminating poverty) as they seek to protect, buttress and support the wealthy, and that expressions of Islamophobia - and other forms of xenophobia - find a welcome home in sections of that party.
     
  19. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Do you have any quotes that are as overtly Islamophobic as the anti-semitic Labour quotes?

    Quite an interesting article here:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...tention-to-sadiq-khans-links-with-extremists/
     
  20. sim667, May 4, 2016
    Last edited: May 4, 2016

    sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #20
    Goldsmith has made a number of comments about Khan, which are overtly racist, describing him as "radical" and implying he is a terrorist, purely based on the fact he's Muslim. A lot of people seem to have forgotten about that frankly disgusting article that Goldsmith wrote, using images of 7/7 as propaganda.

    I will admit I've not kept up with the comments being made by the labour types, but most of them have been comparing Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians, and the inherent racism that Israel as a state shows toward them to that of the third reich. I'm still unsure how that can be seen as anti semitic, its a comparison.
     
  21. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    No, actually, he didn't. It’s not Islamophobic to point out Khan’s dubious associations - of which there are many. While one could argue that the Conservative campaign is a cynical smear attempt, one could also argue that by playing the racist card, Labour are even worse offenders.

    There have been some pretty horrendous tweets by Labour MPs and councillors including saying Hitler was the greatest man ever.


    I don't agree with Israel's policy on Palestine. I also don't believe all Jews should be relocated to the US. In a perfect world, a two state solution would be workable. However I can't see that happening in my time.
     
  22. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #22
    It is Islamophobic to use Khans association with Imam Suliman Gani as evidence of Khan being associated with extremists, when that very Imam is in no way associated with IS, has condemned them repeatedly, is also pictured with Goldsmith, and has been invited to Conservative events where Goldsmith was talking. That is racist.

    However the PM originally made the link in PMQ's, with no evidence, and now he refuses to make the link outside of Parliament, because he knows he wouldn't be subject to parliamentary privilege and could be sued for slander, and possibly even face criminal proceedings.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-keeps-accusing-british-7890428

    So yes, it is Islamophobic, Cameron has knowingly lied in order to give Goldsmith something to cling onto and attack Khan's credibility as a Muslim. That is by its very definition, racist.
     
  23. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    I'll admit that they got that completely wrong. What's more baffling is that they had so many other actual extremist sympathisers with links to Khan (as shown in my link above) that they could have gone with.



    However, bringing back on topic, here are some actual antisemitic comments from labour councillors:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/02/labour-suspends-two-councillors-alleged-antisemitism
     
  24. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #24
    For anyone who hasn't read it here is Norman Finkelstein's take on this.Anti-semitic views are around in all sections of U.K. society (not just "in some elements of the old working class" ) Livingstone ran his mouth off and assumed those listening had the knowledge of history he has,a dumb move.I'm another one who in a lifetime of left politics (way to the left of the Labour party) who has never heard anyone express anti-semitic views aside of course from Islamic and right wing loons:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ja...h-scholar-behind-labour-s-antisemitism-scanda

    The whole thing stinks of Crosby and his "dead cat" politics.
     
  25. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    I'd agree that digging up dirt - whether factual or inaccurate - on Sadiq Khan is "dead cat politics". I hate that British politics is going the way of the US where every chance of a speaking platform resorts to mud slinging rather than promoting how that politicians policies will benefit the country/constituency/ward.

    However when Ken starts making out that "hey, Hitler was on your side all along, he was just a bit crazy" is not only pretty offensive but wrong.

    I'm not sure how a Labour councilor tweeting "Adolf Hitler = greatest man in history" is either Crosby's work or not anti-semitic.

    But the worst faction is people like George Galloway using anti-Israel sentiment in a cynical attempt to attract Muslim votes.

    Yes there are anti-Semitic right wingers. There are also Muslim Tories. As you said there are people from all walks of life who are pro/anti one thing or another. But when the problem is widely acknowledged within the Labour Party, even you should be able to agree there must be a bit of a fire with all this smoke.
     

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