U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres: The Goal of Environmental Activists is to Destroy Capitalism

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Well. Her wikipedia page says she is a "Global Climate Change Analyst." Pretty illustrious job for an anthropology degree. However, I thought a Ph.D in climatology would be a more appropriate background for such an important job. Silly me.

    At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.'s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

    So if we take her at her word, we can better understand why it’s appears to be a political debate, and not about science at all. And, indeed, it lines up as a political debate. All very interesting.
     
  2. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #2
    Well, yeah. Of course. It should be obvious to even the most ignorant layman that the next logical step after wind turbines and solar panels is the utter destruction of the bourgeoisie. I mean comeon...
     
  3. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #3
    That isn't what she said.

    She was talking about unfettered industrialization; totally free of environmental and labor regulation; that - if left unchecked - has been proven time and again to have devastating effects on the people it is meant to serve.

    The industrial revolution gave us great gifts. It gave us cheap food, clothing, transportation, and housing. It created great private fortunes for many. It raised the standard of living and life expectancy for millions more. It also turned Birmingham, England and Pittsburgh, PA into toxic wastelands. It left London choking in deadly fog; and Los Angeles blanketed in smog and throttled by traffic jams. Environmental regulations changed that: London fogs are now largely a thing of the past; and smog in Los Angeles has declined by more than 70%. And last time I checked - capitalism seems to be doing pretty well for itself in both of those places.

    Today Beijing and Shanghai; Mumbai and Lagos are facing their own environmental catastrophes. Hundreds of days each year when the air is literally too dangerous to go outside. On a larger scale, we are facing climate change (whether man-made or natural) that threatens to inundate Miami and New Orleans; return the American West to a drought-riddled desert.

    The difference is that now we live in a truly global economy. We are interconnected with people in every continent; and living under every form of government imaginable. The pollution pumped out by factories in Shenzhen and Guangzhou wends its way inexorably to the west coast of the USA. Some analysts believe a spike in food prices - sparked by crippling droughts in Russia, Ukraine, Argentina and China - led to the uprisings of the Arab Spring. The consequences of which we are struggling with today.

    There is no more local when it comes to pollution. The only way we, as a species (not Republicans or Democrats; Tories or Labor) can deal with this is through international cooperation. Through treaties; through binding international agreements. Through public discussion and discourse.

    Nobody is talking about doing away with democracy, with free enterprise. With individual liberty. With comfortable cars and homes.

    Christiana Figueres is at the forefront of an organization charged with fostering the cooperation between nations that is our best chance of keeping our planet habitable for our children and grandchildren. Thats what this is all about.
     
  4. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #4
    If you took her for her word you'd use her words. Not a paraphrased misrepresentation.

    Who wrote the opinion piece you linked to?
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    No. It isn't what she said.

    But aaronvan has been having trouble lately just interpreting the meaning of a TelePrompter, so his having difficulty with something more complex, like the English language, shouldn't come as a surprise.

    It can feel like we're beating up on him, but he's inviting it with these really off takes lately.
     
  6. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #6
    The Investors Business Daily column dates from February. Presumably it's in reaction to this news conference.

    But I seem to recall that IBD commentary is a more than a tad fringy...

    Climate Change is a tragedy of the commons, and the actions of billions of self interested entrepreneurs are likely as not to make it into an environmental disaster.

    The fact that she is not a climate scientist is neither here nor there; the purpose of the UNFCC to to secure political agreement among the parties to stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations, and diplomatic skills are of greater importance than technical expertise.
     
  7. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #7
    One need only look to the college kids aligning themselves under anti-free speech and fighting against apparitions and come to understand they are only following the lead set forth by the climateratti.
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    I tried to get more context (which vrDrew actually handled quite nicely) by googling her quote. Not one reliable, mainstream result came up. Just righty stuff.

    The fact is that genuflecting to unbridled capitalism is ruining us. Something has to change.
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #9
    [​IMG]
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    Unregulated capitalism is the main religion of the 21st century.
     
  11. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #11
    Unregulated capitalism is also the root cause of every financial crisis of the last 100+ years.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    That's why I call it a religion. Regardless of the FACTS of the state of the world under a comically unregulated capitalistic system, defenders only throw out platitudes and articles of faith.
     
  13. jnpy!$4g3cwk, Nov 22, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015

    jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #13
    I know that you enjoy being provocative. I read the Investors dot com reference you gave, and, the non-argument in the editorial was ridiculous. The quotation they gave was completely out of context and never once mentioned "capitalism". Then, they draw a conclusion in their own minds. I have no idea what Christiana Figueres economic ideas are-- there is nothing in the editorial to go on.

    But, the fact that they, and you apparently, think that anyone who wants to reform the status quo is trying "to destroy capitalism" is very telling.

    Let me ask you straight out:

    Are you a fundamentalist authoritarian follower of-- the religion of Laissez-Faire Capitalism? If you are-- fine, no problem. No different that being an FA follower of Pastafarianism. Just don't be surprised if lots of people with even libertarian leanings who appreciate nice cell phones don't agree with you. When sea-water is up to your neck, are you still going to be in denial?
     
  14. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Whatever crap they "teach" at the LSE, a well known party school.
     
  15. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #15
    No, it isn't.

    The world hasn't seen real capitalism since 1913.

    Since the FedReserve was introduced the markets have been controlled by a few bankers.

    And needless to say: Human made "climate change" is a political agenda based on pseudoscience.
     
  16. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #16
    Keep eating those harmless lead paint chips.
     
  17. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #17
    Keep telling yourself that. It's like trying to convince yourself that 2+3=7.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    If we haven't seen capitalism since 1913 then capitalism is a failed idea. I can't imagine going back to the early 20th century.
     
  19. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #19
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #20
    I've posted numerous times that I believe in AGW and the most feasible solution to replace coal and oil-fired electricity generation is greenhouse-free nuclear power.
     
  21. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Good.

    But its worth considering the following: Britain has just announced that it is going to be eliminating the last of its coal-fired power stations in the coming years; replacing them with renewables and natural gas. Britain, and other wealthy countries, can do so because they can afford to. Developing nations such as India and China have a hard time making the same choice. From a purely capitalist; free-enterprise standpoint - there would be no incentive for power-station operators in Manchester and Liverpool (let alone Mumbai and Shenzhen) to switch over from (cheap) coal to costlier renewables.

    Which is what Figueres was talking about: Some combination of national and international governmental actors need to change the way market for electric power (and other industries) operate from pure capitalism, to some blended system that assigns an appropriate additional cost on activities that create harmful environmental externalities.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    Oh please. What is causing the rapid warming if not us?
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    Jesus's love....obviously.
     
  24. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #24
    Yes, but ...

    Are you willing to admit that "the market" is sometimes fundamentally flawed? In a big way? I don't mean hidden fees on your mutual funds. I mean 215 feet (exact number TBD in 5000(?) years) of seawater over every coastal city in the world? This isn't "just" about global warming. Just as Soviet Socialism had its centrally-planned limitations, so too do the micro-economical optimizations of market capitalism.
     
  25. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #25
    Not only that, but in order to frame the market model in a way that makes logical sense they've completely written off effects under the term "externalities".

    The problem of course is that these "externalities" are such things as pollution to water and air, destruction of the ecosystems life systems, etc. Basically "externalities" are everything that a human being needs to survive, and we've been operating under a model that doesn't even factor them into the system. Who is this system designed for, actual living human beings, or immortal non-breathing/eating/drinking corporations?
     

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