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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Dec 30, 2004.
Good thing we don't export anything anymore (except jobs and soldiers, of course).
I was going to make a joke about this being Bush's response to outsourcing, but this just saddens me. I hope people don't think all of America is that bad. But considering some of us here are starting to wonder, I wouldn't blame them. Especially with the current administration's belief that you have to love the government to love the country. Despite that being the exact opposite of what this country was founded on.
I'd say it's official, we have become what we hate. What we claim to be fighting against. Too bad most Americans couldn't care less, but I suppose that's part of the problem.
while the outcome of the survey isn't very surprising (at least to me who lives in student suroundings etc.) a differentiation in age groups might have been interesting... in the last 2-3 years opinion about the USA changed a lot ... especially in the younger age groups... the long term effects seem to be totally unpredictable
personal observation: in the demographic group i'm around (19-25,mainly university students) it doesn't look very good at all...
It would be truly ironic if capitalism turned out to be the factor that finally thwarts the neo-con agenda.
That is, if American products don't sell well overseas, or if American companies find that foreign countries are hostile to the establishment of American retail outlets within their borders, and if it turns out this is because of the Bush administration's policies, American corporations could conceivably put pressure on the Bushies to start acting like responsible adults instead of schoolyard bullies.
OTOH, it could just as easily cause even more companies identified as "American" to disown their origins, move their headquarters overseas, and declare themselves to be "international" companies without no allegience to anyone.
Given the way things have been going, I suspect the latter scenario is more likely.
Means little Zim when everything is made overseas now and almost every manufactor is running away from the U.S. Look at Apple computer? any American made products anymore? perhaps that box it came in if we are lucky. Our own Govt has sold out the citizens of this country along time ago with every incentive for big businessto get the heck out. What the U.S will end up with is 2 classes. The filthy rich making money off of Chinamen and Mexicans and a poor working class stocking Walmart shelves or flipping burgers.
I think it is over the top. Remember the US banning French wine? Most people in Europe cannot even relate Esso to ExxonMobil. And McD was always a target in France. As far as I know and have heard, most folks around the world admire US brands (except US SUV of course )
I think we're growing out of it...
Except for A****, of course.
This is no joke about the rest of the world not wanting our products. Our sales manager for Asia was here last month and he was very worried that the trend against our US made product would get even worse. Even with the dramatic drop in the value of the dollar, the company I work for is losing a big chunk of income that we used to get from overseas because the consumers just don't want American associated products the way they used to. Given the choice of getting a locally produced version of much lesser quality, the locals are picking up the business (and we're losing about 20% before the election and I'm afraid to see how much lower that goes in reaction to Nov 2).
Just a few years ago it was easy to sell using USA as the main advertising point, but now we have to re-tool that to tone down the association. I'm going to a trade show in a couple weeks where I'll be sure to here if this as widespread as I suspect.
Same here, but you can't blame them. For in some ways we are the poster child for greed. From the top down. We ignore some dictators, but yet spend billions of dollars and countless lives on all sides. The rest of the world is trying to save our limited oil reserves and the average MPG in the states has gone down.
With the devastation in South Asia, Bush first came out with a $35M US pledge. Then tapped out the aid budget at $350M US. In stead of saying that we would do X $, pending Congress coming back in session.
As close as the last two elections in the US were, the rest of the world does rightly so question where many of the American minds are at. We are selfish, unless we see a "benefit" to ourselves. Just how much more will the South Asia donations go up if we are able to claim on on our 2004 taxes, donations made after 12/31/2004?
I take some exception to this. If you are talking about America as reflected in matters of Policy, we might rightly be considered greedy or selfish. Insofar as you want to infer US Public characteristics by their voting habits, you might find some truth in that reflection. Nevertheless, I feel that Americans are comparable as a whole to be as generous as citizens elsewhere, at least in the face of tradgedy. There are plenty of examples of this, which of course reflects our humanity.
Like in every society, there are some saints and many pricks. Most of us are both depending on the timing and circumstance.
You have a point. I see Americans as being divorced from the political/social arena. What private donations are up to a level equal to our governments pledges (which we may or may not complete). Then there is aspect that many others around the world don't realize. that is that because the ways our budgets are done, there was only so much money that the Bush administration could have clearly given a pledge to.
There are many more millions that are being spent by the military as part of their budget that is not being reported. For it is part of a different budget. To be fair, there is an even distribution of the military dollars in many peoples opinions. Look at the billions that have done little good to secure US freedoms and protection in Iraq. By most accounts we are less safe than ever.
Just imagine what good we would if we were to spend our military dollars on the general welfare and humanitarian efforts around the world. Instead of propping up dictators, or destroying innocent lives. Bush claims to be a Born Again Christian. Should not Peace be a first thought, not a second thought? No he and others seem to focus only on what will give them their best "bounce".
Agreed, not all americans are pricks.
Though you may want to check the latest figures on disaster relief donations. Private citizens in the EU have contributed about $800m as opposed to $200m from US citizens. The EU as a whole has contributed $2.6bn as opposed to the $550m from the US. (The EU has a population of about 380m vs the approx 295m of the US)
Now i'm not turning this into a game of 'who is the most generous' or 'who donated the most', Any and all aid and donations are, i'm sure, welcome; just pointing out that you should not take exception quite so quickly to claims of american stingyness.
Are you including aid in the form of American presence ... such as airborn support and troops that help out?
The figures don't include the logistical support provided by either the EU or the US, which is of course substantial and crucially important. I don't think figures are yet available for this. The US has supplied a large amount of logistical support in the form of troops, ships and aircraft. The EU has also supplied smaller numbers of aircraft and troops as well as large numbers of medical and forensic teams.
Japan and Australia have also made enormous contributions in both absolute and relative terms ($0.5bn and 0.8bn form the respective governments in addition to logistical and medical support)
No one is diminishing anyone's contributions, and i am certainly not trying to turn this into a pissing competition.
It was just a response to blackfox who took exception to an earlier comment because he felt that americans were as generous as anyone else.
Just pointing out that he should not take exception so quickly as the US per capita private contribution is 32% of the EU per capita private contributions.
I understand your point, Zaid, it is well-taken.
I just happen to think in times of crisis, people show their best natures the world over...
As for the US aid figures vs EU (private), it is kinda surprising that we here in the States gave that much. Hell, lots of us don't have jobs, or have underpaying ones, we have rising health-care and insurance costs, and have to contend with the dismantling of whats left of our social safety net.
I am being borderline-rhetorical here...
Also, I wonder about American isolationalism at work too, in that it is so hard to look beyond our vast country to the rest of the world.
None of this is an argument or excuse really, I am just kinda thinking out loud...take as you will