U.S. Republican Paul Ryan wants choice in delivering aid to poor

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    Few details at this point but the concept sounds like it's worth debating. Of course, the Democrats have already panned it.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014...PZ0B820140724?feedType=RSS&feedName=bondsNews
     
  2. gibbz macrumors 68030

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    #2
    I'm a democrat and I think it sounds like something to debate. He makes some very valid points. Like you, I would like to see actual details. Ryan (like all politicians) is skilled at making something sounds broadly good (like his budget), while the details are often less appealing.
     
  3. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #3

    Agreed. I'm more inclined to believe this is all part of him wanting to run for President rather than really change policy.
     
  4. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #4
    I have a hard time believing that any plan that Paul Ryan comes up with is actually going to be beneficial to poor people. I feel like it's a mask for something, just can't quite put my finger on it yet....
     
  5. Tilpots macrumors 601

    Tilpots

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    #5
    Just starting the debate to move some 50 million people in poverty over to a program like this is going to need some pretty focused details to even think about beginning the conversation on a serious level. Right now, it seems like a pie in the sky concept. Big talk with few details deserves panning when it's obvious political posturing.
     
  6. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #7
    Case management involves case managers. If case managers are going to spend additional time counseling poor people, collecting data on their performance against benchmarks, and coordinating and assigning benefits accordingly, they are going to expect to be paid for their time. Paul's plan sounds like it calls for a booming new industry: poverty case managers, which presumably could only be funded by diverting funds from poor people to the case managers.

    That being said, this could be effective for some people, assuming that case managers are qualified, motivated, non-abusive, and good at their jobs. But then, aren't all interventions good if you assume they'll work perfectly?

    It's also important to understand that our economic system is not designed for full employment.
     
  7. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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  8. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    I'd love to see this worked out in a state. If a state was successful with it, many more may follow.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    I'm under the impression that the biggest federal welfare programs are already done largely as grants and managed by state and local governments. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I'm not against rethinking and refining our social safety nets, so long as the goal is to improve them, not remove them.
     
  10. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #11
    The proposal suggests trying it out in several states, rather than just one state -- "a new pilot project in a select number of states" ... "the Opportunity Grant program would begin in a handful of states".
     
  11. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #12
    I'm even cool with it being used in a few states. There's an axiom in business that the government should keep in mind when rolling out new projects… "Fail fast, fail cheap". Unfortunately, when a program doesn't work they keep nursing it along for years. Try something and if doesn't work pull the plug quickly.
     
  12. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #13
    I was involved in a DOL pilot project back in the '90s that was conducted in "a handful of states". Having multiple states involved worked well. For one thing, the participants "tried harder" because there was a real sense of competition.
     
  13. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

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    #14
    Like Obamacare (Romneycare)?
     
  14. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #15
    That would be an example.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #16
    What programs aren't working?

    Please specify.
     
  16. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    In general I do not support charities over properly funded and run government programmes. Charities are too easily swayed by the personal whims of their founders, and often come with strings attached (having to listen to sermons for instance). Also, the overheads of many charities make me very suspicious of those running them. Don't get me wrong - I think many charities are excellent (Red Cross for example), but I am fine with paying taxes for social programmes and donating to charities.
     
  17. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Ryan's plan is supposed to address ways in which we can reduce the mass incarceration that seems to affect many low-income communities. Ryan is supported in this regard by Sen. Rand Paul.

    The fact that two leaders on the right of the political spectrum even broach this subject seems, to me at least, encouraging. Of course, the devil is in the details, and I think it probably best to withhold judgement until more is known.

    The idea of devolving more control for social programs to the States is nice in theory. But unfortunately experience seems to show that those States with the worst poverty problems tend to be those with Republican Governors and Legislatures - which somehow find a way to make a bad situation worse. As in those Republican-dominated states that rejected Medicaid expansion as a way of broadening health insurance coverage. That - more than anything else - is what worries me about Ryan's plan.
     
  18. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #19
    It would be simpler to try and determine which ones are working. Look at SNAP/EBT/Food Stamps. It is supposed to be a temporary program to help people have better, nutritious foods. It's a mess. More people on it than ever before… no one even tries to buy healthy. Many spend every dime on the card, the first week and are broke the rest of the month. Some are on the program for years and years.
     
  19. samiwas Suspended

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    #20
    How on earth could you have a private company whose job it was to educate and disperse aid to poor people? Who would be paying for it? Where would their profits come from? Would they have shareholders? It's all a bit fishy.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #21
    And? What's your alternative?

    So long as it involves getting food to those in need, I'm all ears.

    If the plan is, "there are some problems, so let's get rid of it", then you've lost my support.
     
  21. Michael Goff macrumors G4

    Michael Goff

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    #22
    I would love a source on that.
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    He's looked at their carts in the grocery store.

    ;)
     
  23. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #24

    Is this based on those you follow from the supermarket checkout (hey, I thought you said they all shop in convenience stores) and follow to their luxury cars or some statistical analysis you're holding back?
     
  24. samiwas Suspended

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    #25
    And watched them pay. And looked at what car they drive. And has taken video through their neighborhoods.
     

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