U.S. U.N. ambassador says Washington's focus no longer on removing Assad in Syria

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zin, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. zin macrumors 6502

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    #1
    Looks like Trump's foreign policy is slowly trickling down. Hopefully this new direction means the 'rebels' are going to run dry on supplies of American stinger missiles.
     
  2. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #2
    Good. Maybe we can work with Assad to get rid of ISIS and bring stability back. And hopefully we can learn from this to stay out of things in the future. Are the people ad Syria really better off since we backed the rebels and let it turn into a long war with half a million dead and most of the country displaced vs if we had let Assad stamp it out in a few weeks. Yes a lot of people would have died in a short period of time, but the numbers probably would have been lower overall and you wouldn't have had a generation growing up with the scars of war.
     
  3. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #3
    First you have to determine how many dead bodies are acceptable to sit back and watch pile up while he "stamps it out".
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #4
    Second. You have to realize that there is a reason why the Middle East typically has had dictators and Kingdoms.
     
  5. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #5
    It would have been a lot, which is bad. But if it has been half a million deaths so far (which is close to the estimates, but maybe a bit high) then wouldn't it have been better to save say 200,000 even if Assad had murdered 300,000?
     
  6. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #6
    Finally!
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2017 ---
    Less than some of the other genocides currently happening and of which nobody talks about. Want to intervene there also?
     
  7. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #7
    I was under the impression that the international community was operating under the "never again" mantra. I realize self interests play a role in that decision but I personally don't care if we have no interests in the given region. It should be stopped at all costs if possible.
     
  8. yaxomoxay, Mar 30, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #8
    Are you willing to bet the lives of 50,000+ young Americans and Europeans to stop a genocide in a region we have nothing to do with, that we didn't influence, and after which we will not be gaining anything back?
    It can't be a half win, so you will have to be prepared to heavy losses.
     
  9. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #9
    I don't care what Trump does or the stupid things he says, this one action will make him a better president than Obama was. 95% of the stuff Trump says is horse crap but all that matters are the big decisions like this that will save lives.

    Had Assad stomped out the opposition early, countless thousands of lives would have been saved and the refugee crisis would not have happened.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2017 ---

    Genocide yes, getting involved in a civil? No

    Let's make sure we use the word correctly, let's make it clear that a real genocide should be stopped.
     
  10. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #10
    The objection still stands. Genocide is bad, but we can't stop all of them "at any cost."
    Some might be solvable with a few sanctions an a few air raids, others will require heavy losses.
     
  11. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #11
    Sanctions are not going to do anything. See Iraq post GW1 pre GW2. The only people that were hurting during the sanctions were the Iraqi people. Air raids ain't going to do anything. Boots on the ground are the only thing that will stop whatever it is you are trying to stop. That's messy, and it should be the reason we don't use our forces for whatever the cause of the day is.
    (I know you weren't claiming we needed to.)
     
  12. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #12
    What a coincidence, keeping Assad in power has been Russia's goal since the very beginning. It's their dictator.
     
  13. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #13

    What happened to the Kurds was horrible but it was not ongoing. You don't start a war 15 years later.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2017 ---

    Yup, some you can't and it would be a disaster to try. There has to be an active genocide that has an easy solution, a military intervention may make it worse.

    Stop at any cost? Maybe, it really depends what is happening. The term genocide is used too loosely, but if the threat is real and active military action MIGHT be warranted.

    I'm against intervention unless it's absolutely nesesary. If Turkey invaded Syria and rounded up the Shia to exterminate them, I would greatly consider military action as a last resort.
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Syria's government is not US business. Nothing but stupid meddling that's been getting a bunch of people killed and creating a raghead problem for Europe. All that the Obamanoid NeoCons cared about was the Qatar-Europe natural gas pipeline to continue the Wolfowitz Doctrine of hurting the Russian economy by reducing Gazprom's sales to Europe.
     
  15. Stella, Mar 30, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017

    Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #15
    Americans are finally realizing they've lost. Good.

    The West should have never of interfered. The result is the rise of ISIS and destabilization of several Mid East countries.

    5 million Syrian refugees.

    The West never learn.
     
  16. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #16
    It's a tough decision:

    • Go in, destabilize a country, leave a power vacuum, and maybe make matters worse
    • Stay out and stand idly by while watching thousands on people be slaughtered asking you for help and you just turning your back on them
    Neither choice is a very good one. However, to be clear, the reason we get involved in such situations is because of history and the gassing of Jews by Hitler. I guess some of you would have just sat around and let that go on until indefinitely until Hitler killed them all. I'm glad you guys weren't in charge of anything back then.
     
  17. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #17
    The Second World War was well under way, and the Americans had already joined by the time the slaughter had started.

     
  18. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #18
    Yeah I know! Some here I guess, would say we entered too soon and would have preferred it had been not at all.
     
  19. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #19
    People don't want us there, our side and theirs. It's their problem let them figure it out. There's what 159 other Countries in the UN that can do something if they want?
     
  20. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #20
    Well I do agree that it shouldn't always be on our shoulders to fix all the ills of the world. You are right. There are a number of other countries that should be helping stop human rights violations too.
     
  21. zin thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Assad slaughtering his own citizens just doesn't make any sense. There have been numerous allegations of mass murder of civilians by the Assad Government but they don't hold up to scrutiny.

    For example, two years ago there were claims that his armed forces were bombing trucks transporting medication to civilians in vulnerable areas. Yet at the same time, there were trucks supplying munitions to the 'rebels' in these same areas. If Assad could bomb the medicine trucks, why didn't he also bomb the trucks supplying munitions to the rebels? Why would he allow the rebels to arm themselves even further and make his mission more difficult and instead focus on denying medical supplies to civilians?

    And if the rebels are freedom fighters, why are they terrorising civilians and beheading children? Why were they using stinger missiles to target Aleppo, which has killed civilians multiple times, so much so that their indiscriminate bombings have been condemned by the UN? Why are the so-called White Helmets seen on video cleaning up after terrorists beheading people?

    I've no doubt there are political prisoners and human rights violations directed against these prisoners, but I can't accept the claim of the Syrian 'rebels' that there is an ongoing mass slaughter, akin to a genocide, of the civilian population.
     
  22. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #22
    I think we need to STOP with the regime change of other countries. It never seems to work. Libya, Egypt, etc. THe list goes on.
     
  23. zin thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #23
    John McCain and Lindsey Graham have called this change in policy 'crushing news' and have said it would empower ISIS.

    What is the point of John McCain and Lindsey Graham? What do they do besides preach war all day?
     
  24. noekozz macrumors 6502a

    noekozz

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    #24
    Of course they would change policies, Trump admires dictators. He only wishes he could do the same here domestically.
     
  25. zin thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Suddenly the (fake) liberals love regime change.
     

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