U.S. will remain in Paris Climate Accord, as of September 2017.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ChrisWB, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #1
    The Trump Administration has completely reversed its position on the Paris Climate Accord. Or have they. It's difficult to tell given that they now say that they'll remain in it, but will simultaneously withdraw from it.

    Here's a direct link to a Wall Street Journal article from this evening, Saturday 16, September 2017. I'm including the date because this administration dramatically changes its position on major issues without warning.

    This evening the deputy press secretary announced the new policy, then immediately contradicted her own statement by saying the following:

     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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  3. zin macrumors 6502

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    #4
    The 'new policy' came from anonymous sources. It did not come from the Deputy Press Secretary, as you have claimed.
     
  4. ChrisWB thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I quoted exactly what she said. Literally. The words. That she spoke.

    The words that came out of her mouth.

    I am emphasizing this because your appear to be arguing that the Deputy Press Secretary did not say the words that she spoke, on video, in front of the press.
     
  5. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #6
    The new policy likely came from realizing the red hats are gettting burnt and that means poll numbers would sink without some sort of sop to the blues on something, to shore up Trump's approval rate.

    A sorta-flip on climate change might seem less damaging to MAGA hat wearers than urging compassion in DACA legislation now coupled with some cosmetic Wall extension (or publicly talking about taking bids to fix up the Wall without intent to follow through on it since there's no money coming from Congress), or skipping a tax cut AND doing infrastructure, all or any of that with a boost from the Democrats. It would likely get buried by the GOP leadership.

    It must be very entertaining to Ryan and Mitchell in the meantime, not. Nothing is happening and 2018 is coming.

    It's pretty amazing. I've never seen a majority situation so fractured before. Don't get me wrong, I think the Dems have major fissures too but we're not in power so we get to gawk on this round, and there's a still a chance we'll pull it together before the midterms.

    The way the GOP is going it should be like shooting fish in a barrel for the Dems in 2018, but we're good at circular firing squads too, just like the Republicans.

    Recently I've decided to make time to read Omar El Akkad's book American War, a dystopian novel set in the frame of a second American revolution (2075-2095), where the USA fractures over... yeah, oil, no less. After seeing some horrifying results of climate change.

    I decided to read the novel out of curiosity and as mental preparation, in case we can't get our act together as a country --over whatever becomes some sticking point-- and in case I thus have to backtrack on my belief that we just need to try harder to find a middle ground, one that's not corrupted by our swell top tier. I still think we can manage a recovery, but I want to know why El Akkad's novel has a different take on it.

    His bio info surely has something to do with the premise and proceedings of this book:

    Omar was born in Cairo, Egypt and grew up in Doha, Qatar until he moved to Canada with his family. He is an award-winning journalist and author who has traveled around the world to cover many of the most important news stories of the last decade. His reporting includes dispatches from the NATO-led war in Afghanistan, the military trials at Guantànamo Bay, the Arab Spring revolution in Egypt and the Black Lives Matter movement in Ferguson, Missouri. He is a recipient of Canada’s National Newspaper Award for investigative reporting and the Goff Penny Memorial Prize for Young Canadian Journalists, as well as three National Magazine Award honorable mentions. He lives in Portland, Oregon.
    It would certainly seem that he's had more than an eye full of what real wars are like, for the people and the places in which those wars are fought.

    Climate change is an interesting wedge issue when you start thinking past the headlined issues of today's news about climate, so the potential for a pretty complex and scary novel becomes more apparent than one might chance to contemplate. I had never thought about that issue before in terms of a north-south split, which is how El Akkad pitches a 2nd American revolution. I had climate change battles pegged more as part of a war of market principles and ideals, oil drillers and environmentalists, and so somewhat more abstract, a war that would be carried out mostly in lawsuits and court decisions.

    Anyway I look forward to seeing how El Akkad spins this thing out because the maps in the very front of the book suggest other issues as well: a zone in the US that becomes a Mexican protectorate, otherwise the US is a northern zone, a southern zone that's quite compact thanks to climate change land loss, but out of which there's a place carved that's marked South Carolina Quarantine Zone. I see my chores piling up while I read this thing. I already hope our reality doesn't follow this novel...
     
  6. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #7
    I think Trump is waking up to political reality, tho we'll have to see how long that lasts.
     
  7. zin macrumors 6502

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    #8
    You quoted her saying the original policy. She doesn't announce a new policy anywhere. That 'new policy' came as a result of anonymous sources to The WSJ.
     
  8. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    #9

    Yeah, like a deal that doesn't screw the USA over and shove all the costs and burden on our backs. I still don't care for this entire thing. Seems like a way to transfer wealth and power from productive countries to non productive ones. No thanks.
     
  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #10
    What, exactly, constitutes a "better deal" on the Paris Climate Accord? Donald Trump will be no more able to talk the climate out of changing than King Canute was able to stop the tide coming in.

    If you think Trump will save billions of taxpayer dollars going to China and India you will likewise be disappointed, because that wasn't going to happen anyway.
     
  10. IronWaffle, Sep 17, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017

    IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #11
    My team of misfiring neural connections has labored intensely for months and though our findings have yet to be peer reviewed, I'm fairly confident that we've triangulated The Trump Policy Strategical Secret Sauce. Before studying the results, it should be noted that I am not a scientician but apparently no one on Team Trump is either. Preliminary findings:


    The Hokey Pokey

    You put your right foot in
    You take your right foot out
    You put your right foot in
    And you shake it all about
    You do the hokey pokey
    And you turn yourself around
    That's what it's all about

    You put your left foot in
    You take your left foot out
    You put your left foot in
    And you shake it all about
    You do the hokey pokey
    And you turn yourself around
    That's what it's all about

    You put your right hand in
    You take your right hand out
    You put your right hand in
    And you shake it all about
    You do the hokey pokey
    And you turn yourself around
    That's what it's all about

    You put your left hand in
    You take your left hand out
    You put your left hand in
    And you shake it all about
    You do the hokey pokey
    And you turn yourself around
    That's what it's all about

    You put your whole self in
    You take your whole self out
    You put your whole self in
    And you shake it all about
    You do the hokey pokey
    And you turn yourself around
    That's what it's all about

     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #12
    One were WE don't pay money to other nations
     
  12. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #13
    Thanks for this. I was unaware of this book and I've been looking for a book in which to lose myself. I'm not proud to admit that it's become harder for me to focus on leisure reading and this taps into juuuuust the right anxieties to probably hold my brain.

    My library's copies are all checked out; probably better, just the same, since I have the irrepressible urge to dog-ear, highlight, underline, and otherwise defile neatly bound rectangular pieces of paper whose purity is sullied by memorably phrased compelling ideas. They did have one audiobook download copy available, though, and I've managed to download it and am listening now. May check my local bookseller if I keep finding bits I already want to note like this one, which could be the subtitle for any Charlottesville, statue, "revolution" or similar recent thread in PRSI:

    "This country has a long history of defining its generations by the conflicts that should have killed them."
    I like this quote I cribbed from Amazon as well:

    “Perhaps the longing for safety was itself just another kind of violence—a violence of cowardice, silence, submission. What was safety, anyway, but the sound of a bomb falling on someone else’s home?”​
     
  13. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #14
    Trump already got their votes. He's not giving it back.

    He already got their money for being gullible enough to buy the red hats. He's not giving the money back either.

    Now he's free to do whatever he wants.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. shyam09 macrumors 68020

    shyam09

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    #15
    I had a good laugh at this statement by McMaster:
    "That's a false report," McMaster told Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday." "The president decided to pull out of the Paris accord because it was a bad deal for the American people and a bad deal for the environment."

    Tell me how that one works... :D:D

    Source: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/17/mcmaster-paris-climate-deal-242820
     
  15. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #16
    Paris was a non-binding promise.
    America did not have to pay a dime to anyone (regardless, America gives away millions to other countries, like Israel.

    Also, there is a 4 year delay before withdrawing. Every chance America will decide to stay before that deadline is up.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #17
    Liberal clown like the last one would pretend it's binding. No thanks
     
  17. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #18
    Well, the billions we give to Israel comes back to our economy because they're required to use the money to buy defense weaponry. It's military aid. And Obama and Co. TM signed another 10-year deal back in the fall. The Israeli's don't need the money, but we give it regardless. Israel has its own thriving export economy.
     
  18. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #19
    Not to mention one of their lucrative exports is in their military weapon designs. Few people realize that well-known guns like the Uzi go back way to mid-20th century Israeli design.

    It's like we give them free money for military stuff. And then they design great (sometimes better than ours) military stuff and sell them to less-advanced nations. Kaching$$$$!

    Oh and here's the kicker. Israel has no problem with selling military stuff to countries that hate America. As recently as 5 years ago, the Israeli military industry was exposed in selling arms to the Darfur (South Sudan) militant Arabs. Yep, those Arabs that for years committed genocide and ethnic cleansing in that region of Africa.
     
  19. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #20
    I only know about the Uzi. I don't really know much about their military designs. I'm more familiar with their technology sector.

    Is it a kicker? We sell weapons to the Saudis, who hate us and fund terrorism that ends with westerners dead, including us. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, so to speak. It's a two way street, of course, but we benefit from more money than they do with weapons. Guess who teaches them how to use those weapons? We do.

    Though I wouldn't be surprised if we tampered with our advanced weaponry we've sold them should the need to destroy those weapons comes up for us.
     
  20. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #21
    The Uzi was just a well-known example that Israeli military designs are superb, and have a history going back to the mid-1900s (just right after State of Israel was established). In recent decades, they've sold tanks (the Merkava), numerous small firearms, and even missile boats.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Israel

    Here's the Wikipedia bit that surprised me, Israel sold arms to the Ayatollah Khomeini government (when he was still the reigning Poobah in Iran), because Israel initially thought that it was in their best interest to see Iran win over Iraq (during the 1980s Iran-Iraq War). The funny thing with that is that at the same time, the Reagan White House was openly cheering for Saddam's armies to win over Iran. :rolleyes:

    Strange bedfellows.
     
  21. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #22
    In the end it is the Congress that controls the purse, not the POTUS.
    Article II
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #23
    CAN they disburse payments internationally W/O the input from the POTUS?
     
  23. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #24
    They should, Congress has ultimate power.
    Except it seems they have head up place sun don't shine.
     
  24. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #25
    This new reality TV show has been so exciting since it went on air last November! Trump is a god!
     

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27 September 16, 2017