UAW calls for national strike against GM

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jaydub, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. jaydub macrumors 6502a

    jaydub

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    #1
  2. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #2
    Way to go UAW.

    I'm a proud union member (APWU), and I'm glad the UAW isn't backing down on the issue of their healthcare.
     
  3. kbrain2929 macrumors regular

    kbrain2929

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    #3
    There is a small picket line here in Louisville @ the local UAW office. Not many people, like 5-10 at most. It was just on our local TV stations. :apple:
     
  4. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    So you support GM losing at least $1500 on each vehicle due to your health care? You must love that when you retire, you can still make that $70K+ a year sitting on your high school educated butt. Name me one profession that pays that much money with those kinds of benefits to people with nothing higher then a high school degree? Won't be many if any. Unions are doing what businesses did back in the Guilded Age. Abuse their employers( instead of the employers abusing the employees back in the Industrial Revolution). Unions still serve a purpose. That is to make sure their members don't get the shaft. I don't see how lowering your payrate to $50K at the most, making you pay at least part of your healthcare, and getting rid of the Jobs Bank will make you go homeless and suffer......
     
  5. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    You know how I'd fix this healthcare problem, so GM wasn't losing $1.5k per vehicle?

    Universal healthcare.

    Problem solved. Corporations are no longer responsible to provide healthcare to their employees.

    Other problems with your statement: I'm in college; not "high-school" educated. It's because I get paid sort of decent for my job that I'm able to support myself and go to college at the same time (with the help of my girlfriend).

    I hardly get paid $70,000 per year. I'd love to, but it's more like $16,000 (only working 30 hours a week while I'm in school). Not exactly a glorious wage, but it's much better than any other job I'd be able to get at this point in time.

    People who aren't in unions have big misconceptions about what they do. My union does a lot more than just "make sure I don't get the shaft". They negotiate for pay raises, negotiate the working standards of my workplace, negotiate the terms of my contract outside of my pay. They provide scholarships to children of employees, organize employees to help volunteer with the local community, etc..

    In fact, just a few years back, it was discovered that the carpet where I work had some chemicals in it that were making people sick. The USPS didn't want to do anything about it. Then the union got involved. Thanks to the union, the carpet was completely replaced. Wouldn't have happened without them.
     
  6. jaydub thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jaydub

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    The issue I have is that there are already labor laws in place which will ensure that you aren't getting screwed on the working standards, etc. They really don't seem to serve a unique purpose, and their tactics leave a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of bystanders.
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Hey, there's laws against assault and robbery too right? Might as well get rid of those pesky cops, since they dont seem to serve a unique purpose now that we've got those laws preventing the BadNasties from doing anything Bad and/or Nasty to you. Plus their tactics seem to leave a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of bystanders, as witnessed by the recent tasering incident, among others.
     
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #8
    It's typically been my experience that people who think unions are antiquated and/or useless need to take a closer look at everything that unions do and closer look at everything that employers try to get away with. Obviously not all unions are perfect, but until employers all become benevolent beings that always have their employees best interests at heart there will be a place for unions.


    As an aside, any bets on how long it takes Swarm to hop in here and to tell us that unions are only for weak, unsuccessful people?


    Lethal
     
  9. grafikat macrumors 6502a

    grafikat

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    The major sticking point really isn't the health care in particular for the retirees. This has just about been worked out and is not the cause of the walkout. Looks like GM is will to turn this over to the UAW, and seed the fund with about 55 billion.

    The issue is job security. GM employs only 20% of the number of employees it did in the 90s. A major hit to the Michigan and US economy.

    GM wants to end the job bank program, which is a major expense.

    Job bank story here

    ...and here.

    and the UAW wants to keep it in place.
     
  10. Daveman Deluxe macrumors 68000

    Daveman Deluxe

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    #10
    Quoted For Truth™. Cf. the recent Crandall Canyon Mine disaster in Utah for a GREAT example. Some employers, especially in blue collar industries, would do just about anything to save a buck, even when the lives of their employees are at stake. Unions give the employees a crucial bargaining chip when it comes to helping their members not get screwed by employers.
     
  11. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    #11
    There's a surprise! Ultimately I have to believe those programs are toast....
     
  12. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #12
    I do not like Unions. They are expensive, promotions are not based on skill but seniority and unions really only care about keeping workers from getting fired for things they should be (not showing up for work ect).
    Non union plants put out more product per man hour cost less to run. It a huge help not having to pay a guy a full share for each crew just to sit on his butt and make sure the union contractor is done correctly. Non union companies get to pay their workers a little more by spreading out the cost of that extra worker among their employees.
    No dues to pay. Unions are out dated. Slow and expensive. It a royal pain to have to go though the union rep to tell a worker to go do job x. Instead of just going up to the worker and say hey can you do this for me.
     
  13. jaydub thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jaydub

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    #13
    :rolleyes: Give me a break, don't drag another hot button topic into mine.
     
  14. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #14
    Well I meant strictly UAW. I have no other ideas what other unions get their employees in wages and benefits. But, you could be a high school graduate and not go to college. Join the UAW and by the time you retire, you would be making a damn decent pay for pushing a button or tightning a nut. Plus, when you do retire, you still get paid that full wage! The auto workers would still be making a good living at $40-$50K a year( still above avg annual income for the US which is $35K I believe). They don't need to be paid $70K plus benefits for putting a radio in the dash. The jobs bank must go as well.
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    I completely agree. Our corporations would be a lot more competitive without healthcare responsibilities hanging around their necks. It makes sense to have a universal system. Think about how that would free up tons of capital for businesses and make us more competitive in the world market. This is what the rest of the civilized world is doing. No wonder we have a trade deficit.

    And why shouldn't people with only a high school education be able to make money? You know- back when I was in college a lot of people complained about the students who basically used college for job training, rather than expanding their educational horizons. And to be quite frank, there are a lot of corporate jobs out there that shouldn't require a degree, they are far too simple, or are better learned hands-on in an apprenticeship situation. Of course, there are careers that absolutely should require them: law, medicine, architecture, and education to name a few.

    For instance, I have a friend who never went past high school and is now a banker with JP Morgan. He started as a temp, and had such an aptitude for the work, that they kept promoting him. He now makes more money than most people I know with degrees. these people should not be left behind simply because they weren't good at school and taking tests. And before someone says it- no, he had no connections. He did it on his own.

    And please, do I need to remind anyone about Steve Jobs' or Bill Gate's educations?
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #16
    I have no love for unions, having worked for one and having other jobs where I was represented by them. But they are still needed unfortunately. They're kind of the lesser of 2 evils, especially when gov doesn't enforce the law protecting workers and when employees have no recourse against employers. Would be nice if they weren't needed, but looking back at how things were before them, even with the ineptitude and corruptness, they are still needed in some cases.

    In this case GM wants to take away benefits, lower wages, and no longer guarantee jobs even if those are given up. Except for upper management of course, their jobs are secure. The workers, not so much. I can see why they'd be upset. But we want cheap cars, so they'll lay a bunch of workers off and send the production to another country with lower standards where they treat their employees the way we used to before unions, and they rest of us will be fine with it for some reason.
     
  17. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    Transfer the cost to someone else. Yeah, that will solve our problems.

    I wonder where these people are going to work when GM decides it's more cost effective to shutter those plants and relocate somewhere else.
     
  18. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    You are joking on the universal heath care system. It is not free companies will have to pay for it. Also it will be a lot worse than heath benifits most companies already give out. So if you want your heath care to go down go that way. I personally like my heath insurance and it is a hell of a lot better than anything the government will put out. The waiting list for surgeries in places like Canada is are insane. You have people coming down to the states paying full price for the surguries because they do not have to deal with the waiting list.
     
  19. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #19
    I've never found the need to have an organization negotiate my salary, benefits or working conditions. If I don't like what I see, I beat feet somewhere else.
     
  20. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #20
    yeah go look at the texitile industy. It hurt a lot of places a lot when they just shut down in the states because of unions. They could not make any profit because the unions where demanding so much. I never have and never will be part of a union. I do not believe in them and they do more harm than good now. Now mind you the positions I am after when I get out of college is something that is more management related I could not be part of a union if i wanted to be either.
     
  21. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #21
    so GM not only has a huge pile of debt and crap cars but also problems with unions

    anybody want to take a guess how long it takes until GM breaks apart ?
     
  22. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #22
    How will companies have to pay for it? Through taxes, like everyone else, yes. But those taxes will be a hell of a lot less than paying the full cost of the employee's healthcare.

    I am proposing a single-payer healthcare system; not this terrible terrible plan Hillary has unveiled recently that involves private health insurance companies, the employer, and the government. I don't want big business in my government. It's a shame that no Democratic candidates (except Kucinich) are proposing a single-payer health care system.

    I'm glad you enjoy your health insurance. It's too bad tens of millions of Americans don't have health insurance to enjoy.

    You also need to stop continuing and buying into myths about the Canadian health insurance. The waiting list is long for ELECTIVE surgeries. If you have a life-threatening or NON-ELECTIVE surgery, then you will be seen right away, no waiting list. I'd also like proof that people are coming from Canada for surgery. Nobody has been able to show that normal people are giving up the option of a free surgery to pay tens of thousands of dollars for an elective surgery so they don't have to wait. In fact, I am almost 100% sure you will only be able to find instances of rich celebrities that travel to the US for surgery. It is way out of the budget for normal families.

    Physicians for a National Health Program Go check that out. An organization of Doctors that are for universal healthcare.
     
  23. pdham macrumors member

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    #23
    And once again not everyone is a white, well educated, affluent male with ample job opportunities. A union is most useful in protecting the rights of workers that would otherwise have no bargining chips.
     
  24. jaydub thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jaydub

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    #24
    Even if those bargaining chips are coming at the expense of the livelihood of the employer who they want to provide these benefits? It's one thing to be compensated and treated fairly, but it seems like the UAW is expecting GM to jump through hoops just because they need the workers. The reality is that they both rely on each other equally.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #25
    Are you convinced that management has the best interests of the worker at heart when they make decisions? Yes or no.
     

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