UK Peer would go to prison before giving ID

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Much Ado, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #1
  2. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #2
    She isn't actually a Member of Parliament but a life peer in the House of Lords.

    And I fully agree with her stance on this stupid ID card scheme.
     
  3. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #3
    Its a scam. They say it'll reduce terrorism, illegal immigration, benefit cheats etc.

    Those groups ( especially benefit cheats ) will find ways to get around the system once more in no time at all.

    The IDs cards aren't going to be very cheap either...
     
  4. Queso macrumors G4

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    #4
    Another refusenik here. It isn't the card itself I object to, but the centralised database behind it, which will be fully available to over 680 public bodies within the UK, including for some reason local councils. Why the **** does the local council need to know my health records, or the Civil Aviation Authority my tax code for that matter?
     
  5. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #5
    I would like to be a refusenik, but as a foreign national living (almost 20 years) in the UK, we shall be the first to get them next year... something which is causing me some hassle. Without it, I'll be stuck without a number of services, apparently.
     
  6. Queso macrumors G4

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    #6
    With any luck, Whitehall will do its usual and totally eff up the rollout at that stage BV. Might finally convince a few MPs what an expensive disaster the entire exercise is going to be.

    It'll also be interesting to see what happens the first time NHS frontline staff are told they must refuse non-emergency services to those without cards. In the words of the Kaiser Chiefs, I predict a riot.
     
  7. Much Ado thread starter macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

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    #7
    Hopefully we won't even get that far. This is one pill the UK isn't going to take happily, and if people make enough noise about it and the costs (inevitably) spiral, we just might be spared.
     
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #8
    I am trying to figure out what they are exactly talking about. Not wanting to be required to carry an ID.

    if that is the argument I going an idiot. Most of our entire adult lives we been required to carry ID to get quite a bit of stuff. I believe our driver licenses are ID cards and we need those to do just about anything. They are always in our wallet.

    we are already supposed to show our id to use our credit cards. It is against the law to drive with out one on our person.
     
  9. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #9
    Another refusenik here.

    Although it is spreading to every walk of life, for example i found out my uni is tracking how long we spend on their website and what we look at. I'm taking a civil disobedience route and with the help of applescript i have spent the whole of last week on one specific page.
     
  10. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #10

    We don't have to carry ID in the UK... guess we know about freedom, right? ;)

    The proposed UK ID card will contain:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_national_identity_card
     
  11. d_and_n5000 macrumors 6502a

    d_and_n5000

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    #11
    I think that the big stink is that it involves so much information that winds up getting out to so many people. I'd really almost be worried about more identity theft, not from Joe Blow Criminal, but from higher-ups of groups that are privy to this information.

    Plus, also, the idea that you have to have a card. With driver's licenses and legal ID's now, they aren't strictly required to have. Do you have to have them for various services and whatnot? Yes, but it is not legally required that you have one, period. You can still choose not to have a driver's license, the result being you are cut off from buying things such as alcohol, using credit cards and driving. But you can still do without it.
     
  12. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #12
    the other stuff is going over board. I am going to assume in the UK you need your ID to drive a car, Buy booze, and when using your credit card to prove who you are.

    Now being required to carry one might be over board but being able to do anything that requires identification (get on a plane ect) we already need to be able to produce one.
     
  13. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #13
    No... I don't drive a car, but the rest no, unless in the case of booze you look very close to 18...
     
  14. Lau Guest

    #14
    And there are other non-tracked ways to prove your age – if you look young you can get a card that proves your age without any of the other details being stored.

    I don't have a driving license either – my wallet consists of a debit card, a credit card and a library card. A passport's also optional, so it would be possible to have none of these things. I'd certainly think twice about renewing my passport in 2014 or whenever it expires until I see how this is all going.

    As dynamicv says, hopefully next year the initial rollout will be a dismal failure and it'll be abandoned. I do think it's pretty sneaky to try it out first on a group of people who might not have the same kind of rights to refuse, and the repercussions of them doing so might be greater than to someone who was born here. And then, when it's been in place for a couple of years, you're less likely to get a bad reaction from everyone when they all have to get them.

    Instead of waiting, and then refusing them once we all have to get them, we really should be protesting about them next year when foreign nationals have to get them, and backing them up if and when there's any trouble then. If we all wait until everyone has to get them, it's going to be harder to refuse.
     
  15. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #15
    You need a drivers license to drive in the UK but you are not required to carry it. The Police can ask you to produce it at your local Police Station if they so wish.

    You can buy alcoholic drinks if you look old enough, though a lot of places now refuse to serve people who they think are under 21 unless they show proof of age.

    No proof of ID is required to use a credit card.
     
  16. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #16
    FYI you don't need to carry any documents when driving a car absolutely none.
     
  17. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #17
    You sure about that. I know for one in the US you can get a ticket for driving with you DL on your person. Now most of the time the cops are not going to bother with it as long as when they call it in it not suspended.

    maybe it because I always have my ID/DL in my wallet along debit and credit card and any cash I have. Most people I know are the same way. They have tehre ID/DL on them because it is with there other forms of plastic. Plus a lot of places I know when you use a credit card they will ask for ID.

    I know most places will not give you a job unless you can produce an ID.

    To me it seems people are complaining about the principle but it will have little if any effect on there daily lives having to carry one because OMG they already are carrier one
     
  18. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #18
    Yeah i am sure, this is the UK not the US. I like others have said that you don't need to carry it.

    I have been stopped with no documents wearing only swimming trunks and flip flops and I only got a producer(on the way to a Hawaiian party). Which means you have to show up within 7 days at a police station with your documents.

    In regards to your second point see dynamicv's post as to a reason why we don't like it
     
  19. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #19
    We aren't in the US though, are we?

    You do not need to carry any documents when driving a car in the UK

    OK?
     
  20. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #20
    this sounds very much like it is in california. It's not that you have to carry it around by law, but rather you have to have a license to drive a car and if you get stopped when you don't have it with you, then you get a ticket that requires you to show up to prove you have a license to drive.
     
  21. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #21
    If it's unwelcome people or organisations having access to your personal details that worries you, then I'm sure there's no need for concern – after all, surely we can trust the Government to implement a system that'll be secure, reliable and foolproof?

    Oh... I see where you're coming from. :eek:
     
  22. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #22
    I don't see anything wrong with it myself. If it helps cut down on illegal immigration then I'm for it. Plus just having 1 proof of ID would be quite useful.
     
  23. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #23
    What happens if your ID is hacked or copied? Then you have nothing left to fall back on to prove your identity. Anyway, just wait until you have to shell out £100 or probably more to have one.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    Indeed. Pastor Martin Niemoller's little ditty comes to mind:
    "First they came for the Communists,
    - but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
    Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
    - but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    - but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
    And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."
     
  25. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #25
    There is no way I am going to pay any money to have something forced on me. I'm not going to pay for the privilege of being raped.
     

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