Union Watch

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Aug 5, 2017.

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  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    August 2017- The Latest: Nissan says workers reject UAW in Mississippi

    Typical issues, having a decent job, vs having zero say, work rules, work hours dictated, individuals pitted against the company divide and conquer, possibly fired without reason or representation, not to mention safety, training, and management issues.

    What will happen now, is that it's up to the company to keep workers happy or there will be another union vote.
     
  2. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #2
    Someone had posted a comment the other day about what's wrong with the Dems is they don't advertise their message, and I went into my now usual gig about how it's not the message, it's that they don't do grassroots bench development...

    BUT: another problem the Dems do have is that their messaging on unions is weak. Dems have for far too long now let the Republicans and right-leaning talk radio carry on about the downsides of unions (and let's be honest there are and have been some).

    Dems have missed opportunities for a strong rebuttal presenting the upsides of organized labor. I lay this at the feet of Bill Clinton fairly often, because that southern governor was not going to pitch unions when he ran for president in 1992. He was pitching welfare reform and bootstrapping yourself up from poverty and hailed from a state with a right-to-work law since 1947.

    But, that's no excuse for what has happened to Dems and organized labor since then. It's been left up to some third parties, and to politically active union members themselves, often women, to carry that message of standing up organized labor to stand up better jobs. We need to do still more on behalf of workers if we want to see them retain any rights on the job. Those get whittled down every year a Republican legislative majority or governorship is re-elected or established anywhere in the USA

    The absence of the Dem's previously strong voice in favor of organized labor has just left more room for shoutdowns by anti-unionists with their assertions of leadership corruption.

    I am reminded here of Prince Bandar's retort to an NPR correspondent once, in the course of a discussion about a couple billion bucks that may have sloshed out of a US defense budget through some weapons manufacturers ledgers to some official Saudi books and unacccountably thereafter into assorted other havens: "So what? We did not invent corruption."

    Well, union leaders did not invent corruption either. It takes two to tango, and it always did.

    Sweetheart deal: In the context of employment rights, a contract between an employer and union officials that benefits both parties at the expense of the company's employees.


    Anyway it's Democrats' natural constituency who have got sucked into that place we are now where three generations of workers and need-to-be-working don't have a collective American memory of the upside of a union job and the value of being an employee, not just a faceless and annoying "cost of labor" item on the company's books.

    I have been happy to see the nurse's unions running Twitter promotions, and Nina Turner speaking to the strengths for community that underlie success in collective bargaining. I am sure she pitched in for the UAW effort at Nissan. Good effort, can't quit now, we'll all be back to 1900 if these huge and Wall Street driven companies have their way.


    This part of the piece you cited could end up well or just another round of disheartening, I'm gonna hope for the former but either way it will be awhile and the NLRB is under assault by Trump's administration.

    The United Auto Workers has filed seven new claims that Nissan broke federal labor law during a union election at the company's auto assembly plant in Mississippi.

    The union filed the charges Friday just as polls closed after a two-day election to determine whether the UAW will represent roughly 3,700 workers at Nissan Motor Co.'s Canton plant.

    The National Labor Relations Board will consider the charges and could add them to a series of allegations in a complaint the federal labor regulator has issued against Nissan.

    If the UAW loses the vote and the labor board rules in favor of the charges, the board could order the election to be repeated. Such a decision could be months or years away.

    Among the charges, the UAW alleges that Nissan provided a faulty list of worker contact information. Nissan spokeswoman Parul Bajaj says the company provided all required information. She didn't immediately respond to the other charges.
     
  3. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #4
    The workers said no to the UAW. Is that little fact sinking in anywhere?
     
  4. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #5
    Absolutely. And it's a very shortsighted thing to do.

    The republicans have red state churches where week after week conservative policies and are pounded into people's heads. (now some will say there is supposed to be a separation between church and state, but come'on...we all know that concept falls by the wayside at times). The Democrats used to have unions doing the same thing for them getting out messaging constantly. But as unions have faded, the Dems have had a harder time getting out their messaging. Republicans on the other hand, still have their churches. It's very unbalanced.

    But in addition to that, the Dems just aren't good on messaging anyway. They really need to hire some decent marketing and branding people. I will say the republicans are very good at locking onto an issue and never letting go of it. Repeating over and over again. However even that strategy has it's limits. I don't think the majority of Americans think the ACA is as bad as Republicans in congress make it out to be, and I think most people just think it should be fixed rather than starting all over again from scratch. I think a lot of Republicans wonder why something like infrastructure wasn't tackled first. So there is a disconnect between congress and the American people, even among republicans.
     
  5. LizKat, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017

    LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #6
    You better hope the nurses still have a union if you end up in a hospital. Otherwise they end up zombified by overwork and being treated like mannequins that can just be wheeled around and interchangeably swapped into different units. Plus they knock down the number of nurses assigned per ward when it looks like nobody's going to die that night on a unit... That definitely can affect patient care and outomes of surgery. Would you let a gynecologist do a hip replacement surgery? No? But you might end up with an neonatal nurse checking the status of of that skull fracture repair. Some of my kin are nurses and they all say the same thing: don't allow anyone you love to be alone in a hospital room these days. Take turns among family members sitting there "just in case" something seems to break loose or go wrong. Ask if the nurse has the right chart, the right meds... Be a pain in the neck. It's not that the nurses aren't trained. they may be trained in a different specialty and they may be exhausted. If the nurses are union organized the odds of that are reduced and patient load is smaller too.
     
  6. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Here's the problem. Anyone who has watched the movie Matewan (great movie by the way) can understand why unions were necessary at the time they were formed. But over the years many of the things they advocated for such as safety and work rules have been taken over by the federal government. So at this point it is mainly about pay.

    But if a company like Nissan is treating its workers fairly, what to they have to gain? If they think they are being paid a fair wage and the company is not screwing them over and they are happy, why bring in a third party that has a chance to screw that up?
     
  7. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #8
    And then along came Donald Trump's administration. Those guys have already had a DoJ lawyer switch sides on a case before the NLRB, to have the government support the company side not the worker. They want to roll back "onerous" regulations. They are not the worker's friend. Not labor's friend. Labor Department s/b called the Department of Reducing Annoyances Caused by American Workers. DRACAW. Not as catchy as MAGA... and I don't think Trump supporters will like it as well, either.

    To me these days a union membership card would be an insurance policy. Says don't tread on me, don't roll back those rules you don't lke about break times and provision of safety equipment, don't roll back the one about two of our guys to vouch that the power's off before one of us climbs in that thing to fetch out a stuck piece of whatever.

    At this point "it's mainly about pay?" Maybe. The rule cutting season in Labor lies before us yet. Maybe it's about survival on the job. Even so, I do have an open mind about Alex Acosta, Trump's Labor Secretary... so far.

    I agree about the film Matewan. Probably should buy a copy now in case "someone" tries to ban it...
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  9. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #10
    Sounds like you would have loved the Robber Baron Era of the late 19th century...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #11
    Country gonna have to learn some **** the the hard way all over again.

    On January 12, 1912, an army of textile workers stormed out of the mills in Lawrence, Massachusetts, commencing what has since become known as the "Bread and Roses" strike. Based on newspaper accounts, magazine reportage, and oral histories, Watson reconstructs a Dickensian drama involving thousands of parading strikers from fifty-one nations, unforgettable acts of cruelty, and even a protracted murder trial that tested the boundaries of free speech. A rousing look at a seminal and overlooked chapter of the past, Bread and Roses is indispensable reading.

    ----

    Well sourced, evenhanded and briskly paced, Watson's account of the dramatic textile mill strike in Lawrence, Mass., during the icy winter of 1912 presents a panoramic glimpse of a half-forgotten America, one in which violent agitation and swift repression were often the order of the day. The story of how a polyglot mass of immigrants hailing from Syria to Scotland cohered into a powerful bargaining force is riveting in itself, and Watson places that struggle within the larger currents of reform that were slowly reshaping America. The cast includes self-made mill owner William Wood, who simply couldn't understand how "his" workers could betray him; Joseph Ettor, the union organizer who slept in a different bed every night to avoid reprisals; fiery Big Bill Haywood and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn of the IWW and muckracker Ida Tarbell. The bloody strike was repressed from public memory in the hyperpatriotic years of WWI, later idealized by the labor movement in ways that downplayed union violence. This book's subtitle, and its contents, suggest that the "American Dream" enjoyed by the nation's middle class had to be taken by force by the working class and is by no means a permanent entitlement.

    https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Roses-Migrants-Struggle-American/dp/0143037358
     
  11. adamneer macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Don't people know that all you have to do to solve the union problem is give corporations large tax cuts, which then get disbursed equally and fairly amongst the workforce?
     
  12. steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #13
    The kock brothers agree with you.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Unions should be organized by the workers, not fat cats sitting on top of them. Unions should also not be able to force workers into their ranks.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #15
    Heck you don't think the fat cats go around doing the organizing do you?!

    Twenty-eight states have right-to-work laws which mean the workers can get union benefits wtihout joining the union. aka... free riders.. (spoken like a denizen of the great lakes rust belt )

    when i was a kid living up in Rochester, there were strikes in the 50s, pipefitters and lilke that, and pretty often the management sought srikebreakers from Canada. That I thought later on was pretty ironic because Canada actually has a bunch of laws that limit or forbid strikebreaking on their own turf.

    Anyway there'd be all this hassilng sometimes with them crossing the picket ines, maybe even some headcracking, and then end of day you'd sometimes see the picketers and the scabs having beers together up at the shore.

    well so we were nothing but hospitable to our cousins from the north I guess... kind of like the afghans will give someone from another tribe tea and rice if they pass through, even if they'd as soon kill them for breathing. That evening friendliness did always surprise me though because the sentiments of a morning were pretty hostile. After all no paychecks were coming to the strikers... but somebody was buying rounds later on and it wasn't the canadians. LOL union dues, don't leave home without them?
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #16
    1912 was so last century....
    --- Post Merged, Aug 5, 2017 ---
    Is your kind in the gutter?:p

    The level of stupid in a union setting is too much. Dealt with it and I was so glad when I left
     
  16. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #17
    Funny thing... The more you study the history of the Robber Baron Era, the easier it is to realize why allowing giant mega-corporations to exercise clandestine control over a (supposed) representative democracy is not a good thing. (Welcome to the New Glided Age.)
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #18
    What goes around comes around. Ever hear of hundred-year flood events?

    A one-hundred-year flood is a flood event that has a 1% probability of occurring in any given year. The 100-year flood is also referred to as the 1% flood, since its annual exceedance probability is 1%.[1] For river systems, the 100-year flood is generally expressed as a flowrate. Based on the expected 100-year flood flow rate, the flood water level can be mapped as an area of inundation. The resulting floodplain map is referred to as the 100-year floodplain. Estimates of the 100-year flood flowrate and other streamflow statistics for any stream in the United States are available

    A common misunderstanding exists that a 100-year flood is likely to occur only once in a 100-year period. In fact, there is approximately a 63.4% chance of one or more 100-year floods occurring in any 100-year period. On the Danube River at Passau, Germany, the actual intervals between 100-year floods during 1501 to 2013 ranged from 37 to 192 years

    Given all that, any way you want to look at it, the first reincarnation of the Bread and Roses strike of 1912 seems overdue. And the Trump administration's rule rollbacks and other diminutions of workers' rights will probably give it another shove to the inevitable hard lesson: rights gained can disappear when they are not exercised.

    In fact, the pushback has long since begun. Look at what has happened when companies went way too far with the "just in time" theory of inventory management and tried to shove labor into that category. All those companies like fast food joints suddenly telling workers their work schedule was subject to change so be sure to phone in see if you're due back at 8am after you work a 4 to midnight shift, but on the other hand maybe they don't need you this week so have a nice life... that got tolerated for awhile and then people started waking up.

    My point is that people have thrown the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to unions. And the reason for that is people getting brainwashed by Republicans engraving their anti-union message of choice into the minds of the public, over talk radio and campaign ads. And my secondary observation there is that the Democrats have sat around and watched this happen while they focus on getting a star into the Oval Office. And then they wonder why they don't have the votes they used to have from labor.

    But hey. Every generation has to figure some things out for itself. What I found interesting about the 1912 Bread and Roses events is that who finally rose up and said ENOUGH ALREADY was not just one group of immigrant laborers, not just the new guys at the bottom of the totem pole. It was everybody. It was Scots-Irish and Syrian and Polish and anybody ever crossed the threshold of a textile factory. It was about human rights, period. Work is for human survival and always ends up being about human rights.
     
  18. jeyf macrumors 6502

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    #19
    will Foxconn install suicide nets on the purposed American plant? No. Why not?
     
  19. Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    #20
     
  20. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Not meant as a lecture directed at you. :) Unions exist for a reason and are made up of people just like corporations. There are competent and incompetant groups on both sides of the equation. There are big unions that have blown it and have abused their positions and have destroyed themselves with unrealistic expectations and demands. On the other side we have greedy owners who want to control the show completely without regard for their employees lives or their quality of life.

    Tell us about your experience.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Remind me Monday.
     
  22. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #23
    And have almost taken some company's down with them.

    I think one of my biggest arguments against union is their unwillingness to admit when there is a bad employee. They talk about wanting to be partners with the corporations, but will go to extreme lengths to protect a bad employee's job even when the union knows that employee should be gone.
     
  23. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #24
    I have always thought there should be outside arbitration when it comes to some hassle like that. Three person panel for arbitration, but then I would get hung up trying to come up with an acceptable panel construction. I used to figure hey just some retired union shop steward, some retired CEO and an ordinary citizen with a job in a union shop. Then I realized the hassles are often over very field-specific disputes.

    So maybe mediation. First session, union rep, company rep and the employee, present the known issues to the mediator, let the mediator ask any questions he wants of the employee. Next two sessions, the union guy and the company rep get all frank with the mediator about what, exactly is the problem. If it's fear of a lawsuit but on paper there's good cause, fire the person with decent severance benefits and a noncommittal reference and let him/her sue. We live in a world of grownups even if we're not one.

    On the other hand, it's not just unions that protect bad employees. Man, try some of these law firms and employee benefit consulting firms, investment counseling firms, all the sort of slightly elite companies that have just piles of deadwood in them, even now when jobs are supposedly very competitive. Once you get someone in as a partner or partner equivalent into one of those places, getting them back out again when they've become less than useful is almost impossible. Maybe not like Trump's "you could shoot me on Fifth Ave" etc. but pretty darn close.
     
  24. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #25
    I can see this and it's a bad policy. Fortunately and this may be the exception, I was in the Airline Pilot Association where bad pilots had short careers. Could not afford otherwise.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 6, 2017 ---
    Yep where you have people, you'll have this to some degree.
     

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