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macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
54,690
16,867
In perhaps what should be taken in the strictest definition of a rumor, one Xlr8yourmac.com post indicates that one Apple engineer suggested that the PowerMac G5's may be difficult to upgrade (Processors) due to cooling/venting requirements:

One thing he said is that it will be extremely difficult to upgrade the chips in this machine. Each computer is uniquely paired with its processors to have perfect venting. Changing out processors would throw off the chip that handles the G5 cooling, resulting in (at best) the computer running for a while then shutting off, or (at worst) a non-booting machine.

Obviously, more information will become available in the months to come, as machines become available and upgrade vendors gain access to these machines.
 

Mudbug

Administrator emeritus
Jun 28, 2002
3,848
1
North Central Colorado
I'm sure if you give someone long enough, they'll find a way to upgrade the thing. What good is a computer if you can't upgrade it around 2 years later or so?
 

DrGonzo

macrumors member
Jan 7, 2003
83
0
I don't buy it, that doesn't make sense to me in the fact that changing the cpu would affect cooling beyond basic fans and shutoff timers. If the cpus are replaceable/upgradeable then worries over cooling should be non-existant. This makes sense that they'd custom tune each cooling system for the cpu(s) in there, but I think for most of the community doing an upgrade of a cpu would also mean an upgrade into a bigger/better cooling system. Most corp. and small home mac users aren't going to be doing any upgrading with that, but i wish there was a [/blah] tag.
 

NNO-Stephen

macrumors 6502
Jun 9, 2003
278
0
Tulsa, Oklahoma
yet annother reason to wait for revision 2... or at least next year with 3Ghz models

(just trying to make myself feel better about not being able to get one)
 

MoparShaha

Contributor
May 15, 2003
1,646
38
San Francisco
Not too concerned.....

I'm going to order a 1.8 Ghz machine, and it doesn't really bother me that I might not be able to upgrade it. Even as it gets older, I don't think its going to get slow quickly. I've lived with my 400 Mhz iMac for over 4 years now, I can deal with my G5 become obsolete as well. Anyways, these puppies haven't even shipped yet, and we're talking about putting in upgrades.......sheesh!

I do, however, feel this is negative because it will affect aftermarket upgrade vendors if a work-around can't be found. It would be a shame to put these companies out of business, as the PowerMac is their bread and butter in terms of selling upgrades for macs. I don't see how they could survive off the more-or-less non-upgradeable consumer lines.

Also, I thought I heard Steve say the fans were controlled by OS X itself. Couldn't a patch just be made to change the fan control?
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,859
57
Don't know, it was almost sounding like they were including XServe style fan monitoring in the G5 Tower, along with the CPUs themselves being monitored for temperature (and will throttle back or sleep if too hot).
 

ThorPrime

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2001
41
0
Re: Not too concerned.....

Originally posted by MoparShaha
I'm going to order a 1.8 Ghz machine, and it doesn't really bother me that I might not be able to upgrade it. Even as it gets older, I don't think its going to get slow quickly. I've lived with my 400 Mhz iMac for over 4 years now, I can deal with my G5 become obsolete as well. Anyways, these puppies haven't even shipped yet, and we're talking about putting in upgrades.......sheesh!
Wow, I completely Dido. Talk about taking the words out of my mouth, I've also been using my 400mhz iMac and am going to get a 1.8 this fall.
I've lived without internal Modifications besides Ram for a while now. At least the G5 can take a second internal Hard Drive, a new Graphics Card and PCI cards.

I just hope the apple puts in a discount on 10.3 seeing as it is going to be shipping after the G5's.
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
I don't understand. This rumor is about upgrading processors; not easily changed stuff like ram or hard drives. So it is really surprising that upgrading the processor of a totally new chip is going to be hard? Doesn't sound like that bad of news to me. But then again, I am an optimist. :)
 

Sol

macrumors 68000
Jan 14, 2003
1,564
6
Australia
Possible solution for upgrades

Personally I would never upgrade the CPU of my Mac as there would surelly be another Mac at a similar price to the upgrade that would do a better job of improving overall speed.

Having said that, I wonder if the PCI-X PowerMacs would be better suited for upgrading. I remember some beige Macs were upgradable with a CPU card on a PCI card; imagine how a faster G5 on top-speed PCI-X slot would compare with that!
 

jusvistin

macrumors newbie
Jul 22, 2002
3
0
Another thought....

I'm gonna bet that in a few years, you won't NEED to upgrade your CPU, because Apple will be offering additional CPU boxes that support seamless clustering.

Buy one head unit, then just keep adding low cost boxes to improve your throughput.

One can only hope.


Jusvisting
 

GregGomer

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2002
60
0
My first thougt was no way, cause what do you do when you need service and have to replace a processor or mother board. Do the local repair shops have to become trained in tunig fans and motherboards, sounds kind of crazy to me. Even worse, right now all Portable repairs get shipped off to Apple. What if they have to ship off all G5 repairs too.

Then I remembered, no too long ago, Apple started sending both a Motherboard and processor whenever they had to do a repair. That way the tech could check and make sure it wasn't both causing issues. So I guess for service they could ship a full tuned Motherboard and Processor set. Kind of crazy way to go about things. But hey, what do you do?
 

Frohickey

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2003
809
0
PRK
Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
yet annother reason to wait for revision 2... or at least next year with 3Ghz models

(just trying to make myself feel better about not being able to get one)

What makes you think it will get better with subsequent revisions? It might actually get worse, as far as mating of processor to the system. This 'matching' maybe the price that is paid for a fast but quiet system.
 

mstur

macrumors member
Dec 2, 2001
55
4
Upgrade market is dead anyway

I still have a lot of upgraded 7x00 Macs around, which all got G3 processor cards from Newertech or Sonnet very soon after I bought them. At this time the jump from a 604 to a G3 really was a great improvement in speed and performance. The last upgrade I bought was a 500 MHz G4 ZIF module for my Tupperware G3 Powermac. Unimpressive....

I am a great fan of the G4 cube, I own four of them, but until today I never considered getting one of the higher clocked G4 cards. I dont need more speed in my Cube !!

I do not even need a G5 right now, I rather ordered one of the single CPU 1.25 GHz G4 Powermacs yesterday. So much value for the money, and so many drive bays !!!!

So, even as a heavy buyer of upgrade cards in the past I feel that the lack of possible upgrades in the G5 is no problem. I miss the drive bays much more..
 

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
My one complaint I've always had about Apple aside from prices and weak warranties is that they make it very hard to upgrade their computers... somethings never change.
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,126
12
Lancashire
Having said that, I wonder if the PCI-X PowerMacs would be better suited for upgrading. I remember some beige Macs were upgradable with a CPU card on a PCI card; imagine how a faster G5 on top-speed PCI-X slot would compare with that!

The G5 has a front side bus exactly 1 half of the processor speed.

PCI-X offers 2.1Gb/s of bandwidth, A 3Ghz G5 could theoretically use 12Gb/s of bandwidth. It would be pointless.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
There are always workarounds

If this is true, then maybe an upgrade maker could just include their own temperature sensor of some kind that bypasses what the CPU would otherwise misleadingly report to the other chips.
 

bigjohn

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2000
443
26
Monrovia, CA
G Tres

A friend was amongst the crew working the recent WWDC satellite-cast and while the mics were "supposed" to be off, he overheard Jobs saying, "we'll have the dual-3 ghz out in december".

File it away.
 

wheezl

macrumors member
Dec 3, 2002
31
0
this is a pile of BS cooling is just plain not that hard. you may need bigger fans, a better heat sink, or whatever. they already have better airflow than most machines, you just need more air moving, more surface area or maybe fluid. it's possible that upgrades may be a touch harder for joe mac user to install, which would be a shame. but cooling ain't rocket science folks. (well until it becomes rocket science :) )
 

Frohickey

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2003
809
0
PRK
My best friend's cousin's brother's step-father's ex-wife said that Jobs' said 3GHz will be out in December. :p
 

Frohickey

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2003
809
0
PRK
Sure, maybe you can just aim one of those air blowers, like the kind they use to dry the carpets after they have just done a deep shampoo cleaning on them, at a newly upgraded G5 PowerMac.

WHAT???!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! I CAN'T TURN IT OFF, OR MY COMPUTER WILL CRASH. NO, YOU CAN'T TURN IT OFF. I DON'T CARE IF THE CAT IS GOING BALD! CAN'T YOU SEE THAT I'M PLAYING QUAKE!

:D
 

pianojoe

macrumors 6502
Jul 5, 2001
457
19
N 49.50121 E008.54558
Re: Possible solution for upgrades

Originally posted by Sol
Personally I would never upgrade the CPU of my Mac as there would surelly be another Mac at a similar price to the upgrade that would do a better job of improving overall speed.

Having said that, I wonder if the PCI-X PowerMacs would be better suited for upgrading. I remember some beige Macs were upgradable with a CPU card on a PCI card; imagine how a faster G5 on top-speed PCI-X slot would compare with that!

I've bothered with upgrading serveral old Macs, a 7100 to a 333MHz G3 (a crazy thing to do, because the bus stayed at 33MHz of course), a 7200 to a 400 MHz G3, a beige 233 G3 to a 400 MHz G3...

After all, I'd say upgrading wasn't worth the effort and the money. I learned that heavy processor load relies on the fact that all system components interact smoothly. Remember how ProTools requires you to use only certified graphics cards? There's a reason for it!

So, you're absolutely right! If you need more buzz, get a new machine or a used one that's more powerful, and put your old box on Ebay. The difference in money will not that big, you get a warranty, and you'll be void of some compatibility issues.

The only reason for a proc upgrade would be, you need to keep some legacy hardware like serial devices, SCSI harddisks etc. but this is stone age for many users anyway.
 

MikeH

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2002
104
0
What a load of bull.

Having an adjustable fan system is no big deal. All it requires are temperature sensors placed in strategic places around the case/motherboard and a speed controller unit for the fans.

PC's have had all this available for years and your average PC overclocking store will sell you slow speed 'silent' fans and speed controlers which will increase the speed of the fans when a certain temperature is reached, all for about $50. They'll even sell you a water cooling system if you want it.
 

wheezl

macrumors member
Dec 3, 2002
31
0
and as far as upgrades being useless, while I would of course rather have a new machine.. putting a G4/500 (overclocked to 600) in my B&W box was the best thing ever... for $250 the machine became useable. the $250 plus the $300 I would have received on ebay for the B&W G3 would not have given me a nice new G4 box that I wanted. Would I rather have one? sure. but upgrades are often cost effective.

Also if you think of SCSI as stone age you have never had to use a real computer ;)

given my choice i think I'd still go with fiber channel though :)
 
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