US Border Agents Detain and Interrogate Former Norwegian PM for Visiting Iran in 2014

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mobilehaathi, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #1
    If the Americans are going to treat diplomats in this way, what sort of treatment can regular citizens expect?

     
  2. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #2
    Indeed.

    Not just someone - a former Prime Minister from a democracy - on a diplomatic passport, - but someone who is a former Prime Minister form a friendly country, a country that is a member of NATO and thus, an ally.

    Oh, dear.

    Dear, dear.

    Diplomacy, Mr Trump style.
     
  3. mobilehaathi thread starter macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #3
    It certainly doesn't bode well---for anyone.
     
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #4
    But I doubt Donald Trump personally goes through passenger manifests or looks at the stamps in Diplomatic Passports.

    The decision to detain Bondevik was made by Immigration officers at the airport itself. Now, it could be that they had received instructions to question anybody with passport stamps indicating they had been to Iran. But that sort of instruction must have come from higher up at Homeland Security. And I can well imagine some mid-level State Department or Homeland Security official pushing back: "You don't mean everybody with an Iran stamp? Even diplomats?" And I can well imagine some hot-headed, dim-witted Trump appointee yelling back "Everybody means everybody!"

    Get used to pretty regular embarrassments like this.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    you got to terrorist playgrounds expect to be questioned no matter who you are, where is the problem?
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    question just one segment = racist
    question EVERYONE = embarrasing

    can't win with you guys.
     
  6. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #6
    What's more embarrassing is when TSA and immigration miss people like "the underwear" bomber. Kuddos to the officers who did their job.
     
  7. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #7

    So if drumpf goes to Iraq he can expect to be interrogated ?.
     
  8. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #9
    Can't profile, so this is what we've got.
     
  9. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #10
    never question anything trump does trumps always a winner to you guys. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Scepticalscribe, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #11
    Just been emailing Norwegian friends about this.

    Ah, @vrDrew - yes, but a diplomatic passport is a diplomatic passport. And yes, I like your characterisation of a "hot-headed, dim-witted Trump appointee" - uninformed, cocky, drunk on petty power, and completely and comprehensively clueless - a dangerous combination - ordering this.

    It doesn't matter what stamps it contains - the bearer of a diplomatic passport is waved through the relevant controls and enjoys the protection of full diplomatic status.

    You may have noticed (not you, anyone who travels) that large international airports have special entry sections for diplomatic and consular personnel.

    Let us put this this way: Expect consequences.

    Personally, I am of the view that the head of the idiot who issued this order - or permitted it to be implemented without appropriate oversight - should roll.

    Not one who is a bearer of a diplomatic passport from a friendly country.

    Even a bearer of a diplomatic passport from an unfriendly country is sacrosanct and cannot be stopped. He (or she) can be expelled, but cannot be detained. At all.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    They are complete numbskulls who clearly haven't been briefed properly as to what their jobs entail.

    Anyone with either experience - or a thinking instrument in their skull - should have queried - or sought further clarification on, and written instructions on - this order.

    Of course, it is entirely possible that the administration is encouraging the inculcation of a mindset where asking questions and/or seeking further clarification is not especially welcome.
     
  11. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #12
    When in doubt err on the side of safety. Again, kuddos.
     
  12. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #13
    It is possible that you don't know the legal situation as it applies to diplomats or those travelling on diplomatic passports.

    No kudos, at all, but a terrifying ignorance.
     
  13. yaxomoxay, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #14
    He was a former PM, and he did have a D type passport. This does not exempt him from following certain rules, and even from needing a visa (addendum: it will depend on many factors related to the Vienna Convention, before someone kicks in on this) as the D relationship could be by mutual agreement. For example, the Russian diplomats that Obama kicked out can't cross the borders even with a D passport. It also depends on what was the final destination of the Diplomat.
    This kind of mix up happens, often because of an overzealous officer

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ogy-Dutch-police-attack-Russian-diplomat.html

    and sometimes - being a bilateral agreement - even regular perks of being a Diplomat can be removed on a whim:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...rding-flight-says-iswaran-to-case-of-diplomat
    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    Vienna Convention

    Article 26 Subject to its laws and regulations concerning zones entry into which is prohibited or regulated for reasons of national security, the receiving State shall ensure to all members of the mission freedom of movement and travel in its territory.
     
  14. mobilehaathi thread starter macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #15
    He had his travel documents in order. An overzealous border control officer? Perhaps, but that frames the event too narrowly and seeks to characterize it as the act of a lone individual acting in a rogue way. Why did he suddenly have trouble this trip? He had zero problems previously. I'd say that this officers decision to act "overzealously" is a result of the current political atmosphere stirred up by the present administration, including, obviously, the recent disastrous EO.
     
  15. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #16
    While I certainly find stupid stopping a former Norwegian PM, if you traveled abroad you know that each officer will treat you differently, depending on the day, who they are, and if they are happy at home.
    When I was a foreign citizen I had from one simple question ("How are you today?") to a string of questions, to being stopped and brought to a different room for "clarifications". It just happens, and the fact that he had zero problems before is meaningless - if there was a law and now it is enforced. Last time I went to Italy the Carabiniere actually yelled at me, while 99% of the times they don't even check who you are.
    Also, we're hearing only one side of the story.
     
  16. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #17
    Come on, @yaxomoxay - a former Prime Minister of Norway? A friendly state, and an ally?

    And Dulles is not a field in Alaska, where such stupefying ignorance might be excused.

    I think both @vrDrew and @mobilehaathi have it right: This is an unbriefed, overzealous officer, - possibly clueless (he - or she - does know where Norway is, I trust?) operating too enthusiastically in an environment where seeking clarification may be discouraged.

    Mind you, the voice of experience should have sounded a note of caution.

    Absolutely agreed.
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #18
    Let me tell you another story. In 2006, Philadelphia airport. I was coming back from Italy (Delta flight) with my wife (pregnant) and my then only son (4yo). As we cleared customs, we saw this poor old man, probably in his 80's, crying, saying in Italian : "What did I do? What did I do?". They were checking him like he was Bin Laden's doppleganger, all his stuff was on the floor, he was seating like a distraught men and he had 4 or 5 TSA agents on him. American borders in airports were never easy, so when I hear all these stories about "the man that had to wait six hours" the only thing I can think of: "And you woke up about this... now?"

    --- Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017 ---
    Oh, I am not disagreeing that it was stupid!
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    With a sense of humor: oddly amusing, tartly observant, but also a mite unsettling - that is characteristic of many Germans, Der Spiegel just published their next magazine cover:

    [​IMG]

    I would note that in the Online edition, the severed head of Lady Liberty is actually dripping blood. A
     
  19. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #20
    Wait till post-presidency Trump tries to travel.
     
  20. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #21

    Yeah, Trump is the one that severed Lady Liberty's head by banning entry in the country...


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    Iran has 5000 years of culture, it's certainly on my list of places to visit. Petra in Jordan's supposed to be nice too.
     
  22. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23
    If we end up destroying our values in a (pointless, futile, and probably counterproductive) attempt to keep ourselves safe - we have let the terrorists, as symbolized by the barbaric ISIS, win. And certainly, I think we can conclude that Trump's Executive Order banning visitors from so many countries is a prime example of that.

    This sort of approach already is costing Americans money, jobs, and opportunities. Just take the sector of global air travel. There are all sorts of long-distance intercontinental air routes that would be shorter (and therefore cheaper) if they made a stop at a US hub.

    Did you ever stop to wonder why Emirates is one of the biggest and most successful carriers in the world? The answer is because it has made its hub in Dubai - at the center of the air routes between Southeast Asia and Europe.

    For many people wishing to fly from Asia to Europe, it would technically be shorter to fly via North America. Stopping in Los Angeles or New York, and flying on to London or Berlin. But the airlines find people don't want to do this. Because US airports refuse to create international transit zones. People arriving at LAX, ORD, or JFK have to go through US customs, immigration, and TSA screening - even if they have no intention of ever stepping outside the airport.

    And people, in general, rank the US immigration process among the most hostile and unfriendly in the developed world. Maybe Moscow is a bit grimmer. But the physical shape of major US airports is a disgrace, especially what should be our international hubs in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles.

    Maybe not this bad. But close....
     
  23. Drewski macrumors regular

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    #24
    Straw man and ad hominem in one shot. Nice!
     
  24. mobilehaathi thread starter macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #25
    You are missing the point. Your story is about crossing the border in a time before the EO. I'm talking about all the new restrictions, their vagueness, their chaotic implementation and interpretation. There is a feedback loop that exists between executive statements and actions and the tense social and political atmosphere, and we have, undoubtley underpaid and over worked, border patrol agents thrust into the middle of it. Some have been sympathetic and helpful to the extent they believe that can be under vague orders. Others have let their inner authoritarian take over.

    All of this affects my family in many, very real, ways.
     

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