US-Born Mideast Terrorists. But they didn't join ISIS...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #1
    They are are US-born Jews, committing atrocities in the occupied territories of the West Bank.

    Its worth noting that these extremists have drawn condemnation from a wide range of Israeli society, including the Government of Benjamin Netanyahu.

    But somehow I don't think we'll hear too much about this on Fox News. That ole' "fair and balanced" thing, you know.
     
  2. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    #2
    OP says Fox News. OP loses argument. Nothing to see here, boys.
     
  3. juanm, Sep 4, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015

    juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Fury 161
    #3
    I think OP has a point. Terrorism and extremisms are the same no matter the shape of the logo on the flag, and should all be treated the same.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Probably much of the "liberal" media can be criticised with the same brush here. Probably not a partisan criticism.
     
  5. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #5
    Most American newspapers and news networks covered this story it seems, including Fox News:
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...y-israeli-efforts-to-reform-jewish-extremist/

    The difference is that the NY Times article is an op/ed piece written by an author who has a book coming out on the subject.

    Not sure what point you thought you were making here.
     
  6. jerwin macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
  7. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #7


    The important difference is that that story omitted the fact that several of the individuals responsible for the the terrorism were born and raised in the United States.

    You would think, given the hysteria regarding terrorism, ISIS, etc. that this fact might possibly be of interest to readers in that country.

    The point of the NY Times story - if you bothered to read it, is not so much that there is a level of violence among Israel's settler population. It is the fact that frequently the most radical - and violent - of Israel's settlers have roots in the United States.

     
  8. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #8
    Drew, you said you didn't think we'd hear much about this from Fox News, and I gave you a link showing them covering the three settlers she uses as the crux of her argument. If the fact they were born in America is the problem, then they did mention that the Ettzinger is American in an earlier article http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/09/israel-cracks-down-on-jewish-extremists-with-new-arrests/

    And it could be the reason Fox News or the AP didn't mention the other two were American is because it's not all that newsworthy. The NY Times isn't really even covering it as news per se, but rather the op/ed of a person who is publishing a book on the subject. The other examples she gives are from back in the 90's.

    Also, the point the NY Times op/ed writer is making is that if the majority of American-Israeli settlers really oppose violence and are staying true to their purported liberal ideals, then they ought to be louder in their condemnations of this violence. She is not actually citing statistics or suggesting that frequently the most radical and violent Israeli settlers have American roots. She's just pointing out the hypocrisy from other settlers.
     
  9. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Location:
    Germany
    #9
    O.k. when will the army send bulldozers to their families homes ?

    Otherwise just sweet lipservice.
     
  10. jerwin macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #10

    http://gradworks.umi.com/35/13/3513664.html
    This dissertation investigates how and why Jewish-American immigrants participated within the Israeli settler movement between 1967 and 1987.

    The first question my dissertation confronts is: Who are the American-Israeli settlers in the occupied territories? My project begins by constructing a demographic profile of Jewish-American settlers after 1967. My original findings help dispel many stereotypes about this group. I also quantify the number of Jewish-American settlers in the occupied territories, concluding that this group comprises approximately 15% (45,000 individuals) of the approximately 300,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank today.

    Next, this project explores how Jewish-American immigrants participated, as both settler cadres and leaders, in the establishment of the Israeli settlement enterprise. In particular, the narrative examines the appropriation of the classic Zionist settlement model of the garin [seed colony], where groups of Jewish-Americans formed cooperative organizations to collective immigrate and settle beyond the Green Line. This dissertation also analyzes the dynamic and shifting quadrilateral relationship between Jewish-American immigrants, the Israeli government, the native Israeli settler movement, and the Palestinians...​
    Sounds like a real polemic
     
  11. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #11


    The article you cited certainly does not make that clear, only mentioning in passing that:

    The issue of extremist Israeli violence is one that most Americans are, at best, barely aware of. And the fact that expatriate US citizens make up a large percentage (12-15% according to the article) of the settler population in the occupied territories; as well as comprising a significant fraction of those involved in extremism - even less so.
     
  12. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #12
    I think part of the point is that there appears to be a double-standard, where nationality is overplayed or underplayed.

    I guarantee you, that if a terrorist from Iran hit the U.S., their origin would be a major component of the story.
     
  13. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    #13

    I suspect that you could also guarantee that if these jewish terrorists "hit the U.S." they'd receive a whole lot more coverage then they got when they hit Palestinians. Consider how little media coverage ISIL got until they started lopping off the heads of a small number of westerners. There's lots of terrorism, violence and killing going on around the world that you don't hear about simply because it's not happening here.
     
  14. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Location:
    Alberto, Canado
    #14
    It's ok. They are Jews with American citizenship. They can do no wrong. They will get a free pass from any US administration.
     
  15. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #15
    Baruch Goldstein is an example of an American-born Israeli terrorist whose origins were widely covered in the media. Ettinger isn't even noteworthy enough to have a wikipedia page, let alone warrant "overplayed" coverage of his birthplace.

    You have to take into account where the attack occurs because an attack on the US is far more newsworthy to American audiences than an attack overseas, as well as the magnitude of the attack. Goldstein killed 29 people and injured 125 it looks like. Ettinger, Meyer, and friends aren't accused of anything anywhere near that deadly.
     
  16. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #16

    I don't disagree. And I'm not a fan of the argument of, "why doesn't media cover 'X' as much as it does 'Y'?"

    But I do believe that "origins" are played up (or down) to suit the narrative and often to score political points.

    That's just life in the news world.
     
  17. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #17


    Goldstein committed his terrorism in 1995: almost twenty years ago. Its was also a time when, if I recall correctly terrorism was something that happened to other people - rather than something most Americans felt
    affected them directly. Many Americans had a curious attitude towards, for instance, IRA bombs going off in London.

    This was also a time when giving automatic blind sycophantic allegiance to the most extreme positions of the Israeli government was not really a credible political posture in the United States.

    Again: I would argue that there are many people alive today who are completely unaware of the role Jewish terrorism played in the founding of that nation; to say nothing of the considerable history of violence and atrocities committed since by Israeli settlers and extremists. There are a considerable number of people in this country who would summarize the entire political situation as: Heroic, peaceful Israelis being attacked without cause by murderous and ungrateful Palestinians.

    I don't think anyone is well served by sweeping uncomfortable truths under the rug.
     
  18. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #18
    It was only a couple years after the WTC bombing.

    Couple of things.

    1) It isn't proof of media bias that most people are clueless on the history, politics, and affairs of foreign countries. About half of Americans cannot locate Syria on a map, and only 57% can identify Israel http://www.people-press.org/2013/02/05/what-the-public-knows-in-pictures-maps-graphs-and-symbols/

    That is largely due to a lack of interest, rather than a conspiracy on the part of the AP, Fox News, etc.

    2) The media does report on Islamic terrorism more than any other kind, which I think was part of your earlier point, but that's also because of the public's keen interest in it after 9/11. It's not necessarily because they're trying to hide other forms of terrorism.
     
  19. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    #19
    I wonder if America will also request extradition to try them in US courts for terrorism abroad as well.
     
  20. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #20
    I'm not suggesting any sort of organized conspiracy on the part of America's mass media.

    But I think it fair to say that the involvement of Israeli settlers with undeniable American roots in terrorism and atrocities in the occupied territories is one that has received scant attention or notice.

    Thats why the New York Times story is important. Thats why I posted a link to it. Thats why I think a reading of the comments - many from Jewish readers - expressing horror and disgust that people from their own communities should be participating in anti-Palestinian violence and intimidation, is important.

    If you don't want to read that sot of story: don't. But I find the efforts to dismiss or rationalize this American-born terrorism to be pretty weak sauce.
     

Share This Page