US Debt Ceiling Raise

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rodimus Prime, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #1
    As we draw closer to debt ceiling might as well make a thread about it.
    I think it is sad that the GOP is willing to play chicken with the world's economy over the debt ceiling crap. Arguing over debt for raising the ceiling is not the correct place to do it. That is the budget but instead our elected idiots (both parties) choose to keep them seperated.

    The former Bush budget advisor called those Tea Partiers who are playing political games with the debt ceiling terrorist. This is in sane because if they fail to raise it we will watch the cost to borrow for the US sky rocket and chances are bring the US economic recovering to a halt.
    It is sad that they are willing to do this. Hell The Speaker already said he is not even sure they will bring it up to vote in the house. And told the Fed to prepare for a long drawen out battle.
    To me this is more proof they do not give a rats ass about us that they are willing to play these games and try to attached crap to the bills that no way in hell Dems would ever vote for.
    Raise the debt ceiling and go about getting the stuff you want threw like men. Not babies. Are you all to scared that you can not get anything done with out risking our entire economy.
    This giant game of chicken our elected idiots is playing is sickening. Hell on both parties. Shows me more proof that we have nothing more than mob bosses leading us.
     
  2. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #2
    The GOP has been playing hostage with everything lately. Anything that "must" be done these days has a string of right-wing demands attached to it.

    Instead of debating the various issues they are proposing, which they refuse to do because they can't win the argument, they try to force their pro-corporate agenda on America through political terrorism. I guess it might be considered political hijacking.

    More proof the Gipper would be disgusted with today's crop of right-wing republicans.
     
  3. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #3
    To be honest, I'm scared ********. When did *******e become the new normal in America?
     
  4. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #4
    when the tea partiers came to power.

    This is insane that they are willing to do this crap and risk everyone lives for their own petty gains.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    Some people will never be happy unless they can be a part of Armageddon.
     
  6. torbjoern, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011

    torbjoern macrumors 65816

    torbjoern

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    #6
    "The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" is something which has been ignored by too many. Quite odd, actually, as this was the most precise statement Jesus ever made about when this day will be.
     
  7. fivepoint, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011

    fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #7
    Unfortunately, both major parties attempt to control the populous with fear.

    The cause for fear in this case = completely overrated
    Simple Solution = keep expenses < 'revenues'
    Biggest danger =
    - continuing to have a 'cap' that's utterly meaningless
    - suggesting to our debtors that we're completely unserious about repaying them
    - continuing to print more and more dollars, devaluing each previous dollar, stealing wealth from all Americans
    - creating more inflation through FED policies... the single most detrimental thing to poor families
    - continuing to convince ourselves that we can live beyond our means forever
    - creating more and more debt for future generations, enslaving them to pay tomorrow for our welfare/warfare today


    Did you enjoy QE1? How about QE2? Get ready for QE3!
     
  8. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #8
    Except, some fear is jusitifed. The people who are afraid that the Republicans want to destroy medicare are justified. The people who are afraid that the Republicans will allow the US to default if they don't get some big policy change are justified.

    On the other hand, the people who are afraid that taxes are too high. Not justified. Taxes are at historic lows.

    We wouldn't need QE3, and probably would not have needed QE1 and 2 had there been money in the economy increasing the supply of money to be used by consumers. Why isn't there more? Oh I know, it's all sitting idle in the bank accounts of the wealthiest 1-5% of this country.
     
  9. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #9
    Really? What were the income tax rates in the 'roaring 20's? How about the 1800's?



    Why in the world would we have to default? Do you believe that because MSNBC told it to you? Being put in a situation of limited future 'revenues' in the form of debt, wouldn't the top priority for the U.S. government become continuing to take care of it's debt obligations? I think so. We'd simply be forced to live within our means. We wouldn't be able to borrow 40 cents out of every dollar in order to prop up our welfare/warfare state. We'd have to start acting like adults and realizing the government can't do everything for every body.



    If only we had a government which could FORCE people to spend their money, how to spend it, when to spend it.... this would be a much better country, I just know it. It's those damn thrifty people not running up credit cards, spending money they don't have, being frugal, saving, etc. that are the REAL problem! We should punish those bastards.
     
  10. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #10
    Screw the 20's... I just looked up tax rates and saw that the income tax during the aughts and the 10s were as high as 90%!!! How the hell did people let the government take that much?!?!? After earning 10 million dollars, you gave the government 90 cents for every dollar you made? Jesus. Why weren't the roads paved in gold? If we raised the tax rates to 90% again, we would pay off all our debt, buy back all the crap we sold to other countries and we had have high speed rail systems from city to city. And a civil war...
     
  11. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #11
    Yep, everyone knows fleecing the rich equals much higher tax receipts to the government! Yay, everybody wins, F the rich!

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1143980 (post #13)
     
  12. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #12
    You are with me that I was joking about doing this, right? Ended post with a line about a new civil war....
     
  13. torbjoern macrumors 65816

    torbjoern

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    #13
    How the people LET them? Come on, the IRS are like the mafia; whatever they want is theirs to take. The American economy looks to me like a giant pyramid scheme, whereas those in the big club on the top want everybody else to pay for the party to which the latter was not even invited. Their shameless sense of entitlement is horrifying.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #14
    Yeah, sorry, I'm with ya. Thought my 'yep' was clear, but looking back... probably not.
     
  15. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #15

    And you know the solution to it is have the debt ceilling increased match to when the budget is passed. Make the pissing match Happen there. Not in this crap that we have going on right now.

    Any one who is going to turn this in to a political pissing match (aka Tea party right now) should be taken out back and shot because clearly they would rather screw us all over for their own petty gain.
     
  16. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    CA
    #16
    The fears of not raising the debt ceiling seems to be similar to the fears of continuing our deficit spending. It appears to me that the only difference is that the former group, those who are in favor of raising the debt ceiling, expect to avoid all the consequences of having $14 trillion in debt by increasing that figure.

    After the ceiling is raised, what is the plan? We can't keep borrowing indefinitely because all the horrible things you imagine as a consequence of not raising the debt ceiling will eventually happen anyway. The market always corrects these imbalances, even if it takes a few decades.
     
  17. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #17
    You are right we can not borrow forever but the debt ceiling is not the place to argue over it. That was during the budgeting process. Our debt is a direct result of budget.
     
  18. samiwas, Apr 29, 2011
    Last edited: May 1, 2011

    samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Taxes then were just a few percent lower than now. And remind me, because I have forgotten...what happened at the end of the 20's?

    How high were taxes from 1933 until 1984? How did the country manage to function well and, dare I say, explode during that time?

    Why, now that taxes are much lower, is the country in so much more trouble? Shouldn't the lower taxes (a full 35% lower than 30 years ago) be doing wonders for us, creating jobs for everyone and enriching all? Hmm...I must be missing something. But I'm sure you can explain.


    EDIT: 2 days later...why am I not surprised these questions weren't answered.
     
  19. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    #20
    Oh really? I thought social security, medicare, federal takeover of education, obama care, and the stimulus package were all things that "must" be done.

    Never let a chance to install a new indefinite government spending machine go to waste!
     
  20. bassfingers macrumors 6502

    bassfingers

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    Nov 15, 2010
    #21
    Yes, taxes in the 20s were substantially lower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

    the tax hikes in response to the great depression made things worse. FDR's treasury secretary said "We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work".

    In fact, certain taxes, like taxes on writing checks, made the rush on the banks even more severe because everyone wanted physical cash.

    The war made us expand, of course, not taxation.

    Lower tax rates = greater tax revenue through increased economic activity.

    economists criticized Reagan because tax revenue as % of GDP decreased. But that's a retarded criticism because overall tax revenues increased.

    If you think it helps the economy to give your money to the government, voluntarily do it yourself. But don't mess with everyone else
     
  21. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #22
    What an excellent lesson in just how much the left really cares about fiscal solvency. We need more money, charge it! We need even more, charge it! The credit card is capped, we can't charge it! Destroy that stupid cap, keep charging it!

    What's worse, abiding the cap paying our creditors before paying ourselves, or letting the world know that we're completely unserious about our debt and likely to never pay it back... but rather keep increasing our debt caps to put off the inevitable?
     
  22. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #23
    That's because those making the most money, Corporate America, ain't paying their fair share.:mad: Not only that, they're GETTING tax money in bail outs.:mad::mad::mad: The middle class class is getting screwed over. The only fair way to fix the tax system is get rid of itemized deductions. It won't be pretty and we will pay even more taxes, but then Corporate America would chip in a huge chunk as well. It's not the ideal system, but it'll increase the money coming in.
     
  23. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    There is plenty of this mentality from both republicans and democrats alike.
     
  24. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #25
    Why don't you provide answers instead of asking questions? Then you can provide some parallels why, whatever those rates were were better, keeping in mind that a pro-business Administration oversaw the Great Depression on the heals of the roaring 20s... :)

    I recently asked a friend who works for Exxon why they were not investing more in alternative power sources. He told me they could not afford it. For some perspective about this mindset, keep in mind that Exxon is making billions each quarter, basically record profits, and that their leadership has enriched themselves... "but we can't afford it." boo hoo.

    Then there is GE who pays basically nothing in Federal Taxes. No, all the little workers are supposed to keep the government afloat. :(
     

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