US,Iran and Israel at it..

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stylinexpat, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #1
    We have a deepening row forming.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/31626875

    Even the Mossad does not agree..

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31596640

    But Kerry said Netanyahu "was profoundly forward-leaning and outspoken about the importance of invading Iraq under George W Bush, and we all know what happened with that decision".

    Basically we still remember the false evidence that was presented to us that lead us to invade Iraq which put us and the rest of the middle east in the current mess it is currently in. After the war in Iraq, Iraq fell apart and the rest of the middle east started to follow. He is trying to be nice without making any attacks personal during these critical times.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/officials-question-netanyahu-judgement-150226035122307.html
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    **** Netanyahu. For the better part of a decade he's been advocating we fight a war against Iran who, for the better part of said decade, has been months away from developing a nuke.
     
  3. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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  4. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    I'm just impressed that Netanyahu and the Republicans have managed to turn the US support for Israel from one of the most reliably bipartisan issues in America into a partisan one. This is the first time that I've heard any administration even consider supporting US interests over Israeli ones.
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #5
    Nah it's not just Netanyahu and the Republicans. The issue is that the young volunteers the Democratic Party relies on to get the vote out increasingly won't accept the parties blind support of Israel.

    I would expect Hilary to have come out less positive on Israel before the next US election regardless.
     
  6. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    It's a shame that more administrations don't put American interests above Israeli concerns.

    Israel is a trade and defense ally, fine. No issue there. However the USA SHOULD NOT be acting as proxy force for Israel proactively. We don't exist to whack their enemies.

    Israel needs to act against places like Iran on their own if they feel so threatened and not try and get us to bomb and kill people for them.
     
  7. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #7
    The problem with that for US politicians is the large Jewish American community. You know, votes and campaign donations and all that. Interestingly though, I just read an article about how most American Jews dislike Netanyahu, and are against him speaking before Republicans in the White House since John Boehner broke accepted protocol.
     
  8. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #8
    A good thing that their own people are speaking out against their actions.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/27/mossad-binyamin-netanyahu-meir-dagan-israel
     
  9. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Netanyahu is just setting himself up to fail...... the US and the UK should distance themselves from Israel ASAP.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Slowly but surely they are.
     
  11. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #11
    Great article today. This is quite true..

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trita-parsi/netanyahu-congress-iran-speech_b_6782600.html
     
  12. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #12
    Keep in mind there is an election going on in Israel, which Netanyahu is trying to win. The big question is whether this kind of ploy will win or lose him votes. He may be desperate since his party Likud is currently projected to win only 23 seats compared to the Zionist Party's 24.

    [There are 120 seats in the Knesset. There are 9 other parties splitting the rest of the seats, so building a coalition will be necessary. Though the biggest party gets first crack at building a coalition - it is always possible that the 2nd largest may form the government because of its coalition building. The 'electioneering' that Netanyahu is doing is aimed not just at the voters, but at the smaller parties he will need in his coalition if he is to form the next government. Heck of way to run a country, eh?]

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    I don't agree with arguments, of course. Since the writer is the President, of the National Iranian American Council he (and Netanyahu as well) are just reading their scripts.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    The Yahu has done an excellent job advocating we fight his wars for him. Will we oblige again? If the GOP gets their way, I'd say yes.
     
  14. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #15
    I agree with the overall sentiment of the article. Netanyahu has got to go, and it appears many Israelis and some Likud party officials agree. "Likud officials aren’t waiting for the election results. On Wednesday, following less than favorable polls, senior officials labeled the election campaign a failure, and blamed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the party’s poor showing in the polls ahead of Election Day on Tuesday." )From today's Haaretz). Current polling is showing Likud getting 21 seats to the Zionist Union's 25 seats. The Joint Arab List is polling as the 3rd largest party with 13 seats. [A governing coalition needs to control at least 61 seats in the 120 seat Knesset]

    The Palestinian Authority also agrees (no surprise there) and has rounded up and detained over 50 suspected Palestinian militants. "Palestinian Authority security services have arrested some 50 members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad in the West Bank over the last two days, acting out of apparent fear that a terror attack in the coming days would give the Israeli election to Likud.

    There’s a well-known precedent for this: the firebombing of a bus in Jericho on the eve of the 1988 Knesset election, which killed five Israelis, including a mother and her three children ...." etc etc
    [Mar 10 Haaretz, Jerusalem Post, Times of Israel]

    Of course if it was Israel who had illegally detained the Palestinians the world would been all over it and cried "shame" and a thread decrying the Israeli action started on MacRumors . But since it's just the Palestinians trampling on Human Rights the only media who even noticed were - the Israeli media. Talk about double standards.

    The only thing I see Netanyahu calling for is the continued isolation of Iran, and not war. Can you list some sources where he advocates that other nations go to war with Iran?
     
  15. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #16
    How come the only two options are Zionists as new leaders? Can non extremists not make it to the top for elections?

    It is not just him calling on Isolation of Iran but the irony of calling on others to be isolated and to have sanctions placed on them while one decries those that ask for the same to be applied to until peace is resolved with Palestine as anti-semitism and biased hatred.

    I know that the Saudis are no less fans of Iranians then the Israelis are but they stated that if the Iranians are allowed then they would look like to be equally allowed what the Iranians are allowed. That is fair. Either one allows and accepts to allow their neighbors to be allowed what they are allowed and abide by the same expectations that they expect their neighbors to abide by or don't ask nor complain about your neighbors.

    My feelings are that they should abide by the same standards that they expect their neighbors to abide by of which Iran accepts but Israel refuses to do so. That is unfair and show irony along with hypocrisy and bigotry. When one shows all three then people do not like you and start to develop hate against you as well especially when one kills thousands of others while doing all the above. None of this leads to peace in the middle east nor does it help in achieving peace.
     
  16. Huntn, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17

    He testified before Congress in support of the invasion of Iraq. His position of acting tough is in line with his hawkish positions and yes he is advocating we act tough, acting as front men for him and his country. If Iran defies this, where do you think it leads? ...right down the ideal path as far as he and US based Hawks are concerned.
     
  17. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    Please explain how "Zionism" = "Extremism". Zionism is merely the name for the desire/movements for a Jewish Homeland (Israel). There is also a desire/movements for a Palestinian Homeland. Why is that not Extremism? The Jewish Homeland (Israel) is not exclusively for Jews as there is room for Arabs, Christians, Muslims and others in Israel. Unlike the Palestinian Homeland where Jews have been told that they specifically are not welcome.
    Examples please. Keep in mind that Iranian arms are being used by groups killing Israelis (not just Palestinians - but also Hezbollah in Lebanon), and that Iran funds those groups with money.

    Many many experts testified in front of Congress, including the most trusted person in US politics at the time, Colin Powell. Israel was fed the same horse-kaka intelligence as the rest of the world. Israel had nothing to fear from Iraq using conventional weapons, and Israel prefers its Arab enemies to be stable and secular - which Iraq was. Israel fears extremist Islamic Nations that are unstable - which they knew Iraq could become if Saddam was overthrown. The only thing that would scare Israel would be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and the only people who had the "evidence" of WMD in Iraq was the US Administration at the time. So Israel was as badly duped as the rest of the world. Unlike the US, Israel came under direct attack from Iraq during the war.
     
  18. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #19
    it could be an interesting election......the Joint List as third place finishers? A profile of the leader of the Joint List (from the BBC ) ;

     
  19. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  21. snberk103, Mar 15, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015

    snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #22
    Who has called you anti-semitic? I don't that at in this thread at all.
    Of course it's going to be one Zionist for another. Since being a Zionist simply means the belief in the right of Israel to exist. It is hard to become the PM of Israel without believing in the right of Israel to exist. It is exactly like the believing in the Union of the Kingdoms as a prerequisite to becoming the PM of the United Kingdom, or that the US is "Indivisible, One Nation under God... " in order to become President of the US.

    I think so too. Unfortunately the Joint Arab List has significant internal ideological divisions and may not be stable enough to form part of a Government. I hope I'm wrong - having them in a Government would add a lot of credibility to the Cabinet Table. But there are a couple of centre-right and centre-left parties who are primarily concerned with social issues, and add one of the orthodox religious parties - an unfortunate fact of life for any governing coalition in the Knesset - and there are enough seats to form a Government.

    Regardless of the overall election results I think Netanyahu is on his way out. He will be blamed for either losing the election outright, or - if Likud somehow manages a turn-around - for costing them what would have otherwise been an easy win. They're tired of him and will be sent out to pasture, imho.

    Update:Just read that the Joint Arab List has already declared that, for philosophical reasons, it won't join any governing coalition as cabinet members - but that it could support a governing coalition headed by the Zionist Union. Herzog (leader of the Zionist Union) has already declared that he would appoint at least one Government Minister from the Arab community.
     
  22. stylinexpat thread starter macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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  23. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #24
    I'm not sure why you think that. I just counted up the number of seats each party that believes in a two state solution is projected by Haaretz to win tomorrow and it adds up to 90 seats. In a 120 seat chamber. So 75% of the seats could be held by groups that specifically believe in a two state solution. If you remove Likud's projected 21 seats there is still a majority in the Knesset that believes in a two state solution. A couple of caveats of course. The first is that the only poll that matters is the election itself. And that there are a range of conditions that each party has. Meretz is actually calling for the UN to immediately recognize a sovereign Palestinian State, while another of the small parties wants a demilitarized (though independent) Palestinian Nation as a final outcome. But - 90 of 120 seats could be held by people who are favourable to a two state solution.

    Israel has accepted the reality of a two state solution for quite a while. It is the other demands that the PA has insisted on as preconditions before they'll even start to negotiate how a two state solution will work that have prevented a final outcome.

    At least, if Likud is sidelined, there will be an Israeli Government that has fewer conditions of its own - and perhaps some movement will be seen towards peace.
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    I don't think you can say with any credibility that Likud supports the two state solution.

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    What are those preconditions?
     

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