US Iraq troops 'condone torture'

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by toontra, May 5, 2007.

  1. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #1
    BBC News - LINK

    Read it and weep. So much for the winning of hearts and minds. And the US are blaming the insurgence on Al Qaeda! Maybe they should examine what's actually happening over there. One in ten troops admits abusing Iraqis, and less than half think Iraqi civilians should be treated with dignity and respect.
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    You can't possibly expect troops who've been over there too many times to look favorably on the Iraqis. That's why this whole thing has been a disaster from the start. It was never planned in the first place.
     
  3. toontra thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    That's right. If you read the article it makes clear that a probable factor in the lowering of "standards" is the low morale brough on by over-deployment, poor facilities, troop deaths, etc.

    As you say, this was all painfully predictable to all but the Bush war machine.
     
  4. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #4
    They were saying something about this on the evening news. 60 percent of American soldiers interviewed said they would condone torture of Iraqis if it meant saving the life of a conrad.

    (Why does my spell check tell me to use a capital 'C' for conrad? :confused:)
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    Are you serious? :eek:
     
  6. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #6
    You've said it yourself that I'm clueless; this time is no exception. :eek:
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    The word you are looking for is "comrade", comrade.
     
  8. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #8
    Okay thanks skunk. :)
     
  9. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #9
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18494197/

    another story about military sexual trauma.

    if its time to realize soldiers are normal human rather than invincible heroes, its also the time to realize that this war is not for any heroic reasons or causes.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    It's also time to recognise that the occupying troops are a large part of the problem, and can never be a solution.
     
  11. toontra thread starter macrumors 6502

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    That was my point. We are told the US troops are there to quell the insurgence, masterminded by Al Qaeda. That is what Bush says and what he raises money for.

    But in fact it is quite probable that the vast majority of the insurgence is in reaction to the US troop occupation itself, and their callous, sometimes sadistic, attitude towards civilians.

    In other words, totally counter-productive and a gigantic waste of money and lives, and self-perpetuating.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    It would certainly have been interesting to add a follow up to those who said it was OK to torture an enemy to save a comrade: Would you support the enemy doing the same to you or your comrades in order to save the lives of their own comrades?
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    And (b) what makes you think such behaviour has ever saved a comrade's (or conrad's) life? It is far more likely that it has enraged others to such an extent that it has cost lives instead.
     
  14. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #14
    LOL! . . . [​IMG]
     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #15
    I know some soldiers who would be sickened by this. The ones who feel this way, and worse the ones who act on it, only make the good ones look bad by association. And by attempting to justify it, especially when ordered by a higher up, just causes more trouble. This is what the insurgents are fighting. We have become the bad guys. Sad, and yet another reason we are doomed to continue to lose.

    Notice though how, despite what talking heads try to say, we don't blame the troops themselves... we blame those who put them there in this situation while the real terrorists are still out there using this type of thing to gain support. :mad:
     
  16. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #16
    This is very complicated. Yes, regrettable, but it's not as if those who have such attitudes think of themselves as the bad guys. A very good friend of mine just came back from Iraq, where he served. He's a hardcore Republican. He totally condones torture - not just to save the men who serve under him, but as a routine matter of course to extract intelligence. He believes that if the U.S. military were unfettered in the use of torture, we'd "win" in Iraq. I no longer even bother arguing with him. Yes, he's wrong, but he is a true believer - he believes the fate of the U.S. hangs on Iraq, and all means are justified. He totally, totally buys into the propaganda. So sad. Yet, I know this man. He is an intensely loyal, generous person, and I know this from personal experience. He's the best kind of friend you could ask for, a truly outstanding individual - when called upon by a friend, he'll move heaven and earth to help out. So, whenever something terrible comes out of Iraq wrt. our troops, I remind myself, that these are not faceless monsters - there are truly good people doing truly horrific things, because they believe. It saddens me. We are still friends, and always will be, even though he's done things which are unspeakable. I can't agree with him, but I can't stop liking him. We no longer discuss politics.
     

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