US tourist stops thief who tried to steal Magna Carta in UK

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    Another case of America coming to the rescue of the UK. ;)

    Glad to see that there was an American from the South there to stop this guy from getting away. Of course the UK police have already let the guy go on bail, despite trying to steal one of the most valuable and important items in the world. You folks in the UK are a bit too lenient sometimes.

    https://www.wthr.com/article/us-tourist-stops-thief-who-tried-steal-magna-carta-uk

     
  2. arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #2
    Because as in the best Hollywood tradition, everyone else just stood there, paralysed with fear, while the brave Yank jumped into action.
    :rolleyes:
    Sure.…

    Sometimes I wish they'd take all the copies of the bloody thing and ship it over to you Yanks. The only ones you ever see salivating over it are American tourists — and god knows they don't really understand what it is. But I guess it is some part of your mythology.

    Then you can all knock yerselves out over a document that is hugely overrated as to what exact "freedoms" it bestows.
     
  3. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #3
    We Americans do hold the Magna Carta in great esteem. It had a great influence on the creation of our Constitutions (both National and States). It's rather sad that the someone for the UK doesn't have any esteem for it, but considering where the UK is these days where individual rights is concerned, I'm not surprised. When you folks get tired of it, feel free to ship it over to us. We'll show it the respect it deserves.
     
  4. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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  5. weckart macrumors 601

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    #5
    Magna Carta had nothing to do about individual rights and liberties. It was only a vehicle to prevent feudal barons knocking seven bells out of each other. All but three of its clauses have been expunged from current law.
     
  6. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #6
    Oh, dear. Schools today really do not do a good job.

    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/magna-carta-muse-and-mentor/magna-carta-and-the-us-constitution.html
     
  7. weckart macrumors 601

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    #7
    Don't be so hard on your teachers. I am sure they tried their best with what they had.

    As for the link, I believe the preferred US phrase is collateral damage. The true purpose of Magna Carta wasn't some mediaeval kumbaya but pacifying restless noblemen. Seems that some people still buy into the fairytale of some altruistic enfranchisement of the common man.

    Even Wikipedia is pretty blunt about it.

     
  8. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #8
    All that shows is that the UK repealed it from their lawbooks. It's still part and parcel of ours, our Constitutions and founding. That's why we're citizens and not subjects. While it's original purpose may have been to pacify the nobles, it did indeed and in fact, affect the rights of the individual. Can't help the the UK chose to go another way.
     
  9. weckart macrumors 601

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    #9
    I'm sure the Founding Fathers cared even a little. Our nobility less so. Hence arkitect's observation above.
     
  10. matrix07 macrumors 601

    matrix07

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    #10
    What a brave guy. Reminds me of a couple of US citizens helped prevent terrorists attack on a train in France (or in Turkey, couldn’t be sure). I wouldn’t have this courage that’s for sure so kudo.
     
  11. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #11
    I might be wrong here but having read that am I correct in thinking you’re having a bit of a dig at Brits here? Suggesting we are ‘subjects’ rather than ‘citizens’ and insinuating we took an inferior path?
     
  12. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #12
    The only way to stop a bad guy with a hammer is a good guy without a hammer. Or just some bloody thick glass.

    I'm sure there is some lesson here. (Resists urge to make joke about banning hammers...)
     
  13. Huntn, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

    Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #13
    Where were the guards? Seems like the museums have a guard standing in each room. I heard a rumor that many original documents and even paintings, that often there are fake ones on display? Anyone know or heard this rumor? We went to Louve many years ago and looked at the Mona Lisa. In London, we saw the Rosetta Stone (British Museum) among other things. Now I took the time of seeing those things and if they were copies, I’d be aggravated.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 28, 2018 ---
    Not really valid to distinguish citizens from subjects, because the monarchy in the UK is a Constitutional Monarchy, mostly for tradional and ceremony.
     
  14. RootBeerMan thread starter macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #14
    I'm not "insinuating" anything. ;)
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    upload_2018-10-26_14-57-51.png
    Attempted to damage a copy of the Magna Carta would be a more accurate thread title.
     
  16. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Salisbury Cathedral (where the Magna Carta is displayed) isn't a museum.

    It' an active place of worship for the local Church of England congregation. And as such, they don't charge admission for the general areas. Most large churches and cathedrals will have Guardians on duty. But these are often volunteer elderly retired members of the congregation. They have no weapons or training in security tactics. They - at most - have a little badge or lanyard identifying them as such. They are usually there to answer questions from tourists and to (very subtly) hint that visitors put some money in the collection boxes. Obviously, if someone started trying to pry stained glass out of its caning, or walk off with the brass Eagle Lectern they call the police from their mobile phone. But they have no powers of arrest, and are specifically told not to physically intervene.

    Very large Church of England buildings, such as St. Pauls or Westminster Abbey in London will have a permanent police presence. But most churches in regional dioceses will not.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #17
    Thanks for the info! Maybe they need a guard, or make the document visible but less assessable.
     
  18. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #18
    The hammer made holes in the initial layer of glass there is another layer between that and the document.
     
  19. weckart macrumors 601

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    #19
    Not really even a rumour. The crown jewels are one obvious example. Usually only copies are placed on public display in the Tower of London. In this case, an original copy (one of a few extant) of Magna Carta was on display. This has now been replaced with a facsimile for the time being.

    Pretty sure that the Rosetta Stone is the original thing. It's too large and heavy to cart off without being noticed. Security is fairly relaxed. I leant over and touched it the one time I visited the museum. No one noticed or arrested me.
     
  20. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #20
    So why bother to go look at fakes? Instead run down to the nearest Museum Store. ;)
     
  21. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #21
    The Crown Jewels at the Tower of London (the Scottish and Welsh ones are in Edinburgh and Cardiff respectively ) are the real deal.There is a fake collection which have been exhibited in other countries as the real ones must stay in the UK.
     
  22. statik13 macrumors regular

    statik13

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    #22
    Can you imagine posting a guard around every artifact in Europe? It would be impossible. I think the two layers of glass is a pretty good compromise.
     
  23. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23
    There's more to Salisbury Cathedral than just the Magna Carta.

    It has the tallest spire in Britain: More than 400 feet high. Which is pretty amazing when you consider the building just had its 750th Anniversary. Sir Christopher Wrenn, who was born in nearby East Knoyle, was brought in to reinforce the buttressing that kept the spire up. Other tall spires on cathedrals from that era had a nasty habit of falling down.

    Architecturally, Salisbury Cathedral is quite striking. Some of the interior columns are faced in Purbeck marble, which was quarried (and transported) almost eight hundred years ago from the Purbeck in Dorset.

    While you're in the neighborhood, World Heritage Site Stonehenge is located a dozen or so miles to the north. I will warn you ahead of time that the A303 - the main (and pretty much only) road from London to the Southwest, is notorious for traffic backups.

    In case you were wondering (as I did some years ago) Salisbury Steaks have nothing to do with either the city of Salisbury, nor the British peer Lord Salisbury. They were promoted by a medical doctor of that name in the Union Army in the American Civil War, who believed eating beef was important to maintaining men's health. The name (for a patty made of ground beef) would have died out, except for World War One, when America went through a cultural aversion to things with German-sounding names: Hamburgers were therefore renamed Salisbury Steaks, which somehow stuck around, at least in TV Dinners and on the menus of school lunches.

    More than you wanted to know, I'm sure. But I'm killing time before heading off to a funeral.
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #24
    Wow. This thread starts with an American trying to assert to actual citizens what their history is.

    America in a nutshell folks.
     
  25. Vanilla Ice macrumors 6502

    Vanilla Ice

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    #25
    You have been on a roll lately
     

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44 October 27, 2018