US Women soccer team

RiddlaBronc

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Oct 14, 2013
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I hate when sports bring politics into it.
The USWST just had to do that by bringing up Trump and how they are not asking for equal pay but demanding it. Not to mention they let the US flag touch the ground. Also dont forget they had to throw some LBGT bs in it.

When women’s soccer is as popular (money generated) as the male counterpart, then they can claim equal pay.

The sense of entitlement in this country is just absurd. It also will trigger most millenials when someone offers a different opinion.
 

MacAndMic

macrumors 6502
Jun 4, 2009
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I do not know all of the facts involved with their request but it does seem like simple economics. Money generated vs. money paid, end of story. Now if they can break it down to percentages and claim women players see 20% of revenue generated or whatever the realistic number is vs say men get 30%, then they have a legitimate complaint.

Anyone have a link to an article that breaks down the numbers?
 

RichardMZhlubb

Contributor
Nov 26, 2010
209
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Washington, DC
I hate when sports bring politics into it.
The USWST just had to do that by bringing up Trump and how they are not asking for equal pay but demanding it. Not to mention they let the US flag touch the ground. Also dont forget they had to throw some LBGT bs in it.

When women’s soccer is as popular (money generated) as the male counterpart, then they can claim equal pay.

The sense of entitlement in this country is just absurd. It also will trigger most millenials when someone offers a different opinion.
I disagree with much of what you say here, but what specific “LBGT [sic] bs” are you referring to?
 

appleisking

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2013
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I hate when sports bring politics into it.
The USWST just had to do that by bringing up Trump and how they are not asking for equal pay but demanding it. Not to mention they let the US flag touch the ground. Also dont forget they had to throw some LBGT bs in it.

When women’s soccer is as popular (money generated) as the male counterpart, then they can claim equal pay.

The sense of entitlement in this country is just absurd. It also will trigger most millenials when someone offers a different opinion.
Oh no they dropped the flag. Summarily, execute them all immediately. What is this 1950s Soviet Union?
 

LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
5,440
10,395
I hate when sports bring politics into it.
The USWST just had to do that by bringing up Trump and how they are not asking for equal pay but demanding it. Not to mention they let the US flag touch the ground. Also dont forget they had to throw some LBGT bs in it.

When women’s soccer is as popular (money generated) as the male counterpart, then they can claim equal pay.

The sense of entitlement in this country is just absurd
. It also will trigger most millenials when someone offers a different opinion.
you just summed up your own post.

As for equal pay and your comment about making money, yes, you can't pay people if there's no money there. But at the same time, equal access to pay isn't unreasonable. in the NHL For example, there are rules in place negotiated by the players union to force the owners to spend specific amounts of the league revnues directly to players.

These same rules do not apply in Womens leagues currently. A league/team owners can keep basically all their earnings because the players are paid very little (often not even full time wage, many female athletes are forced to have 2nd jobs).

Furthermore, A lot of popularity of mens sports is manufactured by advertising. If you refuse to put money into advertising womens sports, than you are crippling the potential growth of those sports and will never be able to reach parity in revenues and incomes.

your post, is full of entitlement, hat only men should be worth that much and women just aren't worthwhile.

Womens sports need the same attention as mens sports before anything you claimed as true matters. Until then, you're just coming accross as one of those entitled people who can't "Share'

As for the flag hitting the ground? Boo ****ing Hoo. there was no intentional disrespecting of the flag, or the country. there's nothing sacred about a flag. if you wish to treat the flag as some sort of religious fanatical symbol, Fine. But demanding everyone else follows your own ideals is pretty anti-freedom, and completely counter to the ideals that flag represents, making your comment about the flag completely ironic and completely disingenous.
[doublepost=1562691474][/doublepost]
I do not know all of the facts involved with their request but it does seem like simple economics. Money generated vs. money paid, end of story. Now if they can break it down to percentages and claim women players see 20% of revenue generated or whatever the realistic number is vs say men get 30%, then they have a legitimate complaint.

Anyone have a link to an article that breaks down the numbers?
That's the bulk of the complaint. Womens leagues don't typically have the same power and unions to fight for them against the owners of leagues and teams and are often paid significantly less percentages of the league's incomes.

Demaidng 20million in pay for a team that only brings in 10 million is obvious impossible. But ensuring that league's revenues are fairly distributed amongst the teams would go a massive distance to bridging that equality.

But it also leads to another problem with money generated. As my last post points out, Womens sports are severely under advertised, under represented. Bitching about low revenues, in order to not pay the athletes while refusing to also spend money on promoting and advertising the sport in the same manner as mens has helped keep womens sports smaller. The owners must open up their wallets and spend money if they want to grow the sport. Problem is, many owners of womens sports don't care to grow the sport and don't truly re-invest into it the same way Men's sports do


It's not the players responsibility to grow the popularity of the sport. Its up to the league and teams.
 

TheHateMachine

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2012
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you just summed up your own post.

As for equal pay and your comment about making money, yes, you can't pay people if there's no money there. But at the same time, equal access to pay isn't unreasonable. in the NHL For example, there are rules in place negotiated by the players union to force the owners to spend specific amounts of the league revnues directly to players.

These same rules do not apply in Womens leagues currently. A league/team owners can keep basically all their earnings because the players are paid very little (often not even full time wage, many female athletes are forced to have 2nd jobs).

Furthermore, A lot of popularity of mens sports is manufactured by advertising. If you refuse to put money into advertising womens sports, than you are crippling the potential growth of those sports and will never be able to reach parity in revenues and incomes.

your post, is full of entitlement, hat only men should be worth that much and women just aren't worthwhile.

Womens sports need the same attention as mens sports before anything you claimed as true matters. Until then, you're just coming accross as one of those entitled people who can't "Share'

As for the flag hitting the ground? Boo ****ing Hoo. there was no intentional disrespecting of the flag, or the country. there's nothing sacred about a flag. if you wish to treat the flag as some sort of religious fanatical symbol, Fine. But demanding everyone else follows your own ideals is pretty anti-freedom, and completely counter to the ideals that flag represents, making your comment about the flag completely ironic and completely disingenous.
[doublepost=1562691474][/doublepost]

That's the bulk of the complaint. Womens leagues don't typically have the same power and unions to fight for them against the owners of leagues and teams and are often paid significantly less percentages of the league's incomes.

Demaidng 20million in pay for a team that only brings in 10 million is obvious impossible. But ensuring that league's revenues are fairly distributed amongst the teams would go a massive distance to bridging that equality.

But it also leads to another problem with money generated. As my last post points out, Womens sports are severely under advertised, under represented. Bitching about low revenues, in order to not pay the athletes while refusing to also spend money on promoting and advertising the sport in the same manner as mens has helped keep womens sports smaller. The owners must open up their wallets and spend money if they want to grow the sport. Problem is, many owners of womens sports don't care to grow the sport and don't truly re-invest into it the same way Men's sports do


It's not the players responsibility to grow the popularity of the sport. Its up to the league and teams.
 

yaxomoxay

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Mar 3, 2010
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Womens sports need the same attention as mens sports before anything you claimed as true .
Majority of the nation is female. If they were interested in sports as men are they could actually bring lots of money in women’s leagues.
The truth is that not many people care about women’s sports and athletes because they’re inferior under most circumstances.
 

LordVic

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Sep 7, 2011
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Majority of the nation is female. If they were interested in sports as men are they could actually bring lots of money in women’s leagues.
The truth is that not many people care about women’s sports and athletes because they’re inferior under most circumstances.
but they're having an uphill climb. it wasn't that long ago, heck, even in my lifetime where girls are told they cant be athletes, that's unlady like.

Remember the conversation a few weeks ago about particular thread discussing genderedd stereotypes. One of those is women shouldn't be muscular, athletic etc.

it's changing, but slowly. there's still gross opposition from many men who refuse to accept women's sports as real or professional because they're just women and they can never be as good as men.
 

yaxomoxay

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but they're having an uphill climb. it wasn't that long ago, heck, even in my lifetime where girls are told they cant be athletes, that's unlady like.

Remember the conversation a few weeks ago about particular thread discussing genderedd stereotypes. One of those is women shouldn't be muscular, athletic etc.

it's changing, but slowly. there's still gross opposition from many men who refuse to accept women's sports as real or professional because they're just women and they can never be as good as men.
I do agree that they have an uphill battle, but that doesn’t change the fact that they generate less revenue, and that women are less interested in sports hence there isn’t a market big enough to justify equal pay.
Trust me, I want women to succeed in sports, and if they want to be athletic I am perfectly fine with it. Heck, if they want to be bodybuilders so be it. However, as of 2019 the hard truth is this one.
 
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Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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Most of the articles I’m seeing reference men’s World Cup revenue vs women’s. That’s a little disingenuous considering how awful the US men’s team is. Yeah overall men’s World Cup might generate $6B in revenue but that has very little to do with the US men’s team. I’d be curious to know the figures just for the US women’s team vs the men’s team. Is the US men’s team pulling in more revenue/profit/endorsement $$ than the women’s team? If so then yeah that’s why they’re paid more. If it’s just a case of they happen to be in a league that’s more popular (even if they have very little to do with that popularity) then I can see the women’s teams point. They win stuff. What has the men’s team ever done?
 

LordVic

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Sep 7, 2011
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I do agree that they have an uphill battle, but that doesn’t change the fact that they generate less revenue, and that women are less interested in sports hence there isn’t a market big enough to justify equal pay.
Trust me, I want women to succeed in sports, and if they want to be athletic I am perfectly fine with it. Heck, if they want to be bodybuilders so be it. However, as of 2019 the hard truth is this one.
But it's clearly not 2019 around the world. We have made tremendous strides, but ignoring that gendered stereotypes still exist and that even in our more liberal western cultures, women are still told and treated like lesser people for specific life goals.

While this gap still exists, and while there are still actively people who are still fighting as hard as they can to keep men dominant society, women are still fighting up hill battle.

One of my nieces, even in this day of age, has had teachers at her school ask why she's playing sports with the boys and wouldn't she be happier with the girls playing house or talking about makup. She's 12. this sort of talk affects little girls and can change their life ambitions when they get constant comments and judgment like that.

it's still happening today. in 2019. Around the world. this is what we are trying to fight against.

Heck, this thread's OP literally called these women "entitled" for wanting more share of their sports revenues. right there is evidence of what i'm saying is happening in direct counter to the claim you're making
 

yaxomoxay

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Mar 3, 2010
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Most of the articles I’m seeing reference men’s World Cup revenue vs women’s. That’s a little disingenuous considering how awful the US men’s team is. Yeah overall men’s World Cup might generate $6B in revenue but that has very little to do with the US men’s team. I’d be curious to know the figures just for the US women’s team vs the men’s team. Is the US men’s team pulling in more revenue/profit/endorsement $$ than the women’s team? If so then yeah that’s why they’re paid more. If it’s just a case of they happen to be in a league that’s more popular (even if they have very little to do with that popularity) then I can see the women’s teams point. They win stuff. What has the men’s team ever done?
As I explained yesterday, the men were able to go from laughingstock of the world to World Cup contenders in a few years (basically from 1994) playing against hundreds of nations that invest all their sport money on soccer since the XIX century.
The women were able to seize on a new league in which nations that invest virtually zero on the sport and have virtually no collegiate program (plus in the US most soccer collegiate programs are for women as men go into football and baseball) participate. That’s why the USWNT has won 50% of the world cups. Credit to them, they play rather well, but let’s not compare the results as if it were a 1:1 ratio.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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As I explained yesterday, the men were able to go from laughingstock of the world to World Cup contenders in a few years (basically from 1994) playing against hundreds of nations that invest all their sport money on soccer since the XIX century.
The women were able to seize on a new league in which nations that invest virtually zero on the sport and have virtually no collegiate program (plus in the US most soccer collegiate programs are for women as men go into football and baseball) participate. That’s why the USWNT has won 50% of the world cups. Credit to them, they play rather well, but let’s not compare the results as if it were a 1:1 ratio.
Sure but you can’t deny the US men’s team benefits from how popular the sport is outside the US. Having said that you’re making a better argument than a lot of people I’m seeing who are just throwing out raw numbers.

Anyway I’m not one who thinks women should always be paid as much as men. Professional women golfers earn less than men. I have no problem with that. In tennis (non-combined tournaments) women’s prize money is less than men’s. I have no problem with that.
 

yaxomoxay

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Sure but you can’t deny the US men’s team benefits from how popular the sport is outside the US. Having said that you’re making a better argument than a lot of people I’m seeing who are just throwing out raw numbers.

Anyway I’m not one who thinks women should always be paid as much as men. Professional women golfers earn less than men. I have no problem with that. In tennis (non-combined tournaments) women’s prize money is less than men’s. I have no problem with that.
It is absolutely true that USMNT also gain some financial advantage from the inherent popularity of the sport, although we also have to admit that in the US soccer is considered like the least important among the plethora of sports.
Ultimately, they have to figure out if the women are paid because they’re women or if it’s simply due to revenue. If it’s due to overall revenue, I don’t see the problem; that’s how the entertainment business work. I am pretty sure that Meryl Streep makes more money in a movie that bombs then some other actor that is in a widely popular movie.
If, however, the USWNT revenue is equal or more then yeah, they deserve equal or more money than men. Framing the argument around gender, WC results, or USWNT v male U16 results is reductive at best.
 

Altis

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Sep 10, 2013
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but they're having an uphill climb. it wasn't that long ago, heck, even in my lifetime where girls are told they cant be athletes, that's unlady like.

Remember the conversation a few weeks ago about particular thread discussing genderedd stereotypes. One of those is women shouldn't be muscular, athletic etc.

it's changing, but slowly. there's still gross opposition from many men who refuse to accept women's sports as real or professional because they're just women and they can never be as good as men.
You're quick to blame men for this (which is typical), but who are the people enforcing these stereotypes? Men overwhelmingly prefer fit and athletic women, and I have a hard time believing they're actively working against that.
[doublepost=1562697269][/doublepost]
you just summed up your own post.

As for equal pay and your comment about making money, yes, you can't pay people if there's no money there. But at the same time, equal access to pay isn't unreasonable. in the NHL For example, there are rules in place negotiated by the players union to force the owners to spend specific amounts of the league revnues directly to players.

These same rules do not apply in Womens leagues currently. A league/team owners can keep basically all their earnings because the players are paid very little (often not even full time wage, many female athletes are forced to have 2nd jobs).

Furthermore, A lot of popularity of mens sports is manufactured by advertising. If you refuse to put money into advertising womens sports, than you are crippling the potential growth of those sports and will never be able to reach parity in revenues and incomes.

your post, is full of entitlement, hat only men should be worth that much and women just aren't worthwhile.
Do you ever tire of your ideology? It's always a long road of victimhood in place of reality.

The women get 13% of the earnings while the men get 9%. So by your own logic here, the men are underpaid.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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In sufficient data for that conclusion. 13% of what vs 9% of what? For example, 13% of 1000 (130) is less than 9% of 2000 (180).
That’s why you don’t go by raw numbers. Percentages are more meaningful.
 
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RiddlaBronc

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To answer the lbgt question.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/shannonkeating/megan-rapinoe-womens-world-cup-finals-champions

“Over the weekend, the USWNT beat the Netherlands 2–0 in this year’s World Cup final for its second consecutive World Cup win, a victory that, as star forward, team cocaptain, and America’s lesbian sweetheart Megan Rapinoe pointed out, would have been impossible without queer power: “You can’t win a championship without gays on your team … that’s science right there.” Rapinoe’s out teammates include Ashlyn Harris and Ali Krieger, who announced their engagement earlier this year, “”

You can find more comments through a quick search
 
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RichardMZhlubb

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Nov 26, 2010
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To answer the lbgt question.


“Over the weekend, the USWNT beat the Netherlands 2–0 in this year’s World Cup final for its second consecutive World Cup win, a victory that, as star forward, team cocaptain, and America’s lesbian sweetheart Megan Rapinoe pointed out, would have been impossible without queer power: “You can’t win a championship without gays on your team … that’s science right there.” Rapinoe’s out teammates include Ashlyn Harris and Ali Krieger, who announced their engagement earlier this year, “”

You can find more comments through a quick search
So, as I suspected, basically the same sort of things the heterosexual members of the team do all the time, citing the support and discussing their relationships with their male partners, but no one ever complains about that.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/08/11/zach-ertz-eagles-wife-julie-womens-soccer/

https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/06/03/carli-lloyd-usa-uswnt-womens-world-cup
 

RiddlaBronc

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So because one side does it, its okay for the other to do as well?


If the men do it as well, they are no better either. I would have posted the same thing. Just sick and tired of the lbgt agenda.

They need to keep that out of the public especially on a professional level.
 

RichardMZhlubb

Contributor
Nov 26, 2010
209
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Washington, DC
So because one side does it, its okay for the other to do as well?


If the men do it as well, they are no better either. I would have posted the same thing. Just sick and tired of the lbgt agenda.

They need to keep that out of the public especially on a professional level.
I’m not sure what you mean by “sides”? There are no sides. My only point is that many women on the team talk about their husbands, cite the support of their husbands, and appear in public with their husbands and no one ever complains that they are pushing an agenda by doing so. There is no reason that the lesbian members of the team should have to act any differently. What you call an “agenda” is simply people living their lives.
 

RiddlaBronc

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I’m not sure what you mean by “sides”? There are no sides. My only point is that many women on the team talk about their husbands, cite the support of their husbands, and appear in public with their husbands and no one ever complains that they are pushing an agenda by doing so. There is no reason that the lesbian members of the team should have to act any differently. What you call an “agenda” is simply people living their lives.
So whats with “you cant win without gays on the team?””

Whats the motive for saying that?