USA Today columnist calls Mac users and Apple fans a 'cult ...


devilot

Moderator emeritus
May 1, 2005
15,532
2
Whew... considering the short length of the article, I'm pretty taken aback by the length of some of those replies! Geeze...
 

Mudbug

Administrator emeritus
Jun 28, 2002
3,809
1
North Central Colorado
FistfulofAngst said:
Sounds like he's jumped on the Mac user hater cult bandwagon.

So who's the lemming?
I think you've just made his point. It doesn't matter who writes what about Apple in the online or printed press these days. If you simply mention the name, you instantaneously get branded with the "Mac Lover" or "Apple Hater" moniker and you get a HUGE amount of reader response on both sides of the spectrum. The content of what you say makes no difference, really. Just the fact that you brought the company up ensures you will be flooded with replies telling you you're not only the smartest man alive for making your assumptions about Apple, but that you're also the most retarded person to ever hold a news job and should be scrubbed from the face of the earth.

I've skipped approving articles to MacBytes in the past because I knew the backlash from readers would be way more than the writer anticipated, and I send that author an email explaining why it didn't get posted. Most of the time, they're friendly enough to write back to me. Of course, I don't call them names in the process, regardless of what side of the fence they are.
 

ajampam

macrumors regular
Jul 31, 2005
122
0
I couldn't but agree with one of the guys replying saying that
"Tom says:
I find it very humorous that whereas so many people who use Macs love to extol the virtues of all things Macintosh, the only thing I hear from Windows users is ... how much they love using Windows software? No, the only thing I hear from Windows users is how much they dislike all those Mac users who love to extol the virtues of all things Macintosh.

Reason: There IS NOTHING to extol about the WIN lineup of stuff....so what CAN you extol??? THerefore the negativism to something that is way better....virus and spyware free...actually using a computer experience..... :mad:

CRYBABIES!!!!
 

ham_man

macrumors 68020
Jan 21, 2005
2,265
0
Which brings me to my main "MacAnatic" slant: who are the real lemmings if tens of millions of computer buyers/users will continue to purchase everything that Redmond dishes out, despite all it's major flaws and inelegance?
The writer just got slammed dunked in the face by that guy...
 

fistful

macrumors 6502a
Mar 29, 2004
892
0
Socan
Mudbug said:
I think you've just made his point. It doesn't matter who writes what about Apple in the online or printed press these days. If you simply mention the name, you instantaneously get branded with the "Mac Lover" or "Apple Hater" moniker and you get a HUGE amount of reader response on both sides of the spectrum. The content of what you say makes no difference, really. Just the fact that you brought the company up ensures you will be flooded with replies telling you you're not only the smartest man alive for making your assumptions about Apple, but that you're also the most retarded person to ever hold a news job and should be scrubbed from the face of the earth.

I've skipped approving articles to MacBytes in the past because I knew the backlash from readers would be way more than the writer anticipated, and I send that author an email explaining why it didn't get posted. Most of the time, they're friendly enough to write back to me. Of course, I don't call them names in the process, regardless of what side of the fence they are.
I think you may have missed what I was getting at. It just seems everyone these days are lumping every Mac user into this category of cultists for the zealotry of a minority of it's users. I'm not saying he's a lemming for bashing Mac users, frankly I could care less. What I'm saying is he's just as bad by following the trend of painting the entire Mac crowd with a broad brush because they can't handle some criticism whether it's warranted or not.
 

maddav

macrumors 6502
Jul 3, 2004
390
0
Manchester, UK
FistfulofAngst said:
I think you may have missed what I was getting at. It just seems everyone these days are lumping every Mac user into this category of cultists for the zealotry of a minority of it's users. I'm not saying he's a lemming for bashing Mac users, frankly I could care less. What I'm saying is he's just as bad by following the trend of painting the entire Mac crowd with a broad brush because they can't handle some criticism whether it's warranted or not.
But the only real thing that would stop him from being so broad and general with Mac users, is for those who decide to flood articles with complaints for superficial reasons, to simply stop.

Sure this happens with any topic, but I feel some empathy toward the guy, he's obviously been on the receiving end from Mac users (in such large amounts) more than once that he's now resorting to somewhat harsh generalisations.
 

cwtnospam

macrumors regular
Sep 4, 2004
148
0
Mudbug said:
It doesn't matter who writes what about Apple in the online or printed press these days. If you simply mention the name, you instantaneously get branded with the "Mac Lover" or "Apple Hater" moniker and you get a HUGE amount of reader response on both sides of the spectrum. The content of what you say makes no difference, really. Just the fact that you brought the company up ensures you will be flooded with replies telling you you're not only the smartest man alive for making your assumptions about Apple, but that you're also the most retarded person to ever hold a news job and should be scrubbed from the face of the earth.
If you accept the idea that most computer users only buy what they're familiar with and what's been recommended to them by "professionals" then clearly the PC has the vast majority of Lemmings.

When Mac users take offense to an article that might persuade even one person to buy another platform, they aren't being lemmings. They are naturally trying to ensure that the Mac's market share increases rather than decreases so that they can continue to have that alternative to the PC in the future.

Until Microsoft's market share is well below 50%, I will take offense at anyone poking holes in any alternative platform, not just the Mac. The greatest danger to the entire tech industry is Microsoft's monopoly, and anything that helps them maintain it (like a poor review of a competitor) is a bad thing. Microsoft has had the undeserved and whole hearted support of the IT sector for twenty four years, so if pressuring the press to counter balance that is what it will take to remove that monopoly, then so be it. :p
 

Donner

macrumors newbie
Nov 10, 2003
4
0
Marketshare

It's funny how Microsoft and monopoly always seem to enter these conversations. I thought the USA Today columnist was frustrated with Apple fans who were criticizing him for supposedly not wholeheartedly endorsing a product that has 80% of the hard drive mp3 player market. What does this have to do with Microsoft?
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,693
1
LaLaLand, CA
I feel bad for the guy, and I wasn't one of those who sent an angry e-mail. But he does tend to write rather ambiguous articles about Macs and iPods that can seem like unwarranted criticism. I've seen how people react to well balanced articles that are carefully thought out and draw conclusions based on fact and reasoning. It's usually met with as much. Granted there are a few loonies, and they are the ones who tend to write the nasty e-mails, but the fact that he's now playing the poor me, all the Mac zealots yelled at me card, doesn't really help him any. He did make some unfounded comments in the article, missing the point entirely of the popularity of the iPod.

Not saying he deserved the hate mail though. That was uncalled for. And I think we hate the zealots more than anyone else, because they tend to make us look bad by comparison. But then, I wonder how many reasonable e-mails he received, as some of the comments are below. He doesn't really get in to that. Hmm.
 

dubbz

macrumors 68020
Sep 3, 2003
2,284
0
Alta, Norway
BURN HIM!!!


No, wait, don't.

This just seems to be a problem on all sides. There's always someone who will competely ignore all the positive points made in a review, or article, and focus on the few negative points made, while discrediting the reviewer and the review itself. Bonus points for e-mailing an angry rant to the reviewer.

Zealots make us all look bad...
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
He was called a hack by another tech reviewer. Guess all the name calling finally got to him. Grow some thick skin, L4m3l2.
 

OziMac

macrumors 6502
Oct 24, 2003
435
2
Jeez, it's unfortunate that following the 'Mac zealot' storm he's now thrown up (perhaps deliberately), the real problem has gotten buried.

As Rob (and only him and MDN by the looks of it) pointed out so eloquently, the problem with the article was how incredibly badly it was written - the unsupported arguments and incomplete assertions truly heap shame on USA Today. He could have been talking about any product, even Sony's PS2 and the MS XBox, and his comments would have been equally misleading and weak. Seriously, a high school student could have done better...

It's a shame that many Mac users have misinterpreted the problem and given him unnecessary ammunition to fire back with - but then again, perhaps he's simply trying to save his arse from looking so hopelessly incompetent by taking a cheap shot at us 'rabid fanatics'? Unbelievable...
 

Mord

macrumors G4
Aug 24, 2003
10,091
21
UK
the reason mac users are so pushy to buy apple stuff is because when they see people useing a creative player takeing a good minute to find a track when you could do the same function in a few seconds on an ipod, or someone has lost their work because of a virus, or someone has a laptop with a 45 min battery and a 15" 1024x768 screen P4 celeron junk laptop with integrated graphics is suprised they cant run anything at a decent speed, they are reminding of how horrible it is, also they tend to be the ones that people come to help for, i am always haveing to fix peoples pc's, i even put a hot swappable bay in my frieinds dell so i can put in a spare 80GB HD and back all his stuff up without opening his dell up, it's because when people take the cheap option it takes it's toll on us and them and it's downright depressing when if they had just listened to you in the first place and bought the damn apple product none of this would have happened.
 

decksnap

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2003
3,070
70
I just don't understand how people get away with calling themselves a professional and then write stuff like that. I mean, come on... what grade are we in Andrew? People have feedback for your column? Deal with it. that's your job. Calling them names pretty much inks the word 'petty' on your business card.

Although I have a sneaking suspicion that such is the culture over at USA Today. Not exactly a publication that garners a lot of respect.
 

AndrewK

macrumors newbie
Sep 18, 2005
4
0
Andrew here...

BTW, the lemmings comment wasn't directed at Mac users in general, but at MDN readers -- the ones who send me curse-filled messages not based on their reading of the column, but because Mac Daily News bitched and moaned about it.

Further, there was irony meant. So many times a Mac user has called anyone who likes Windows a lemming, I thought it amusing to point out that blind faith works both ways.

Please, please, PLEASE read my original USA Today column. You'll see it's nothing but praise for the iPod. But it wasn't a review -- it was simply an example among several of good quality in technology.

If you try to treat it as a review, of course it fails. It isn't one. So all these nasty notes about "show your proof!!!" are pointless for a non-review article.

Further, if I dared give an example of a music player I thought was as nice as the iPod, we all know I would simply be innundated with MORE nasty messages calling me fifth-grade names and telling me I was wrong. So there's no point in giving examples of other fine products -- it will simply generate more hate mail.

Hate mail, let's keep in mind, for the unforgivable sin of implying that there were other good music players.

Andrew
 

cwtnospam

macrumors regular
Sep 4, 2004
148
0
Donner said:
What does this have to do with Microsoft?
It's simple. As long as Microsoft has a monopoly in the computer industry, if it has anything to do with computers, they have a strong influence. Look at WMA & WMV, a crappy audio & video solution, but still big competition for Quicktime and even the iPod. Kantor's own article praises the iPod but claims that:

"The competition has caught up, and there are some just-as-slick players out there. But they came after the iPod had become synonymous with good looks, and they now have a steep hill to climb to catch up to Apple."

He's completely ignored issues of quality and the total cost of ownership, both of which the iPod wins easily, and he doesn't expect any Mac user to call him on it! That's absurd.

The iPod's current lead is not yet secure, and Microsoft can afford to keep applying pressure since they don't need to make money from WMA. They can potentially do the same thing they did to Netscape. Since the MS monopoly obviously doesn't need to produce quality products (When have they ever?) to compete with Apple, it just isn't fair to criticize an Apple product for not being compatible with WMA for example, but people in the press do it all the time, then they complain about the cult harassing them!
 

AndrewK

macrumors newbie
Sep 18, 2005
4
0
Once more: It wasn't a review

cwtnospam said:
He's completely ignored issues of quality and the total cost of ownership, both of which the iPod wins easily, and he doesn't expect any Mac user to call him on it! That's absurd.
This would be true if I had been writing a review, which I was not. Read the piece and realize what it is -- it's a commentary on quality in technology. What you've done (as have a lot of folks) is try to make it into something it's not, then complain about that something.

Why didn't I talk about other issues -- cost of ownership, built-in vs. replacable batteries, iTunes and DRM? Because it wasn't a review of the iPod. I was simply holding the iPod up as an example of excellent quality.

If you don't get that, of course you'll find fault. Which is why I am saying over and over, to apparently deaf ears: THIS WAS NOT A REVIEW OF THE IPOD.
 

iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,583
0
Randy's House
AndrewK said:
Hate mail, let's keep in mind, for the unforgivable sin of implying that there were other good music players.

Andrew
Comes with the territory of being a writer.

You should have ignored the whole thing.
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
2,237
0
New Zealand
AndrewK said:
BTW, the lemmings comment wasn't directed at Mac users in general, but at MDN readers -- the ones who send me curse-filled messages not based on their reading of the column, but because Mac Daily News bitched and moaned about it.

Further, there was irony meant. So many times a Mac user has called anyone who likes Windows a lemming, I thought it amusing to point out that blind faith works both ways.

Please, please, PLEASE read my original USA Today column. You'll see it's nothing but praise for the iPod. But it wasn't a review -- it was simply an example among several of good quality in technology.

If you try to treat it as a review, of course it fails. It isn't one. So all these nasty notes about "show your proof!!!" are pointless for a non-review article.

Further, if I dared give an example of a music player I thought was as nice as the iPod, we all know I would simply be innundated with MORE nasty messages calling me fifth-grade names and telling me I was wrong. So there's no point in giving examples of other fine products -- it will simply generate more hate mail.

Hate mail, let's keep in mind, for the unforgivable sin of implying that there were other good music players.

Andrew
Welcome to Macbytes forums Andrew. :)
 

cwtnospam

macrumors regular
Sep 4, 2004
148
0
Hector said:
i am always haveing to fix peoples pc's
I used to get calls for help too. Finally I realized that there was a way out. I tell everyone who asks that I'll be glad to help but that my fee for PC work is $400/hour with a 4 hour minimum, cash in advance, and I don't promise any results. That usually gets them to stop. :D