Using God to explain known, naturally occurring phenomena...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MorphingDragon, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #1
    While I can understand why some spiritual people use "God" to explain phenomena and events for which Science doesn't provide a clear explanation yet. But ever since I dropped my faith I've been noticing the amount of people that use God to explain clearly understood processes. They attribute it directly to God instead of accepting it as a part of our Universe or at least that's what it seems like from their wording. I don't honestly know how people can think this?

    For example, recently in a youth group near where I live a teen broke his collar bone. Now I assume that the average Teen knows that the Human body can heal itself. But his youth pastor and himself claims that they prayed and God healed him (instantly, even) despite him being in a sling for a period of time before the prayer session. Suspiciously they don't show the Date on the XRay Photos on their public Facebook page (I've seen the original film, the Date is irrelevant apparently).

    In their words:
    Prayer. Before prayer = bad. After prayer = good.
     

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  2. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #2
    Not really sure what the point of this is. If you don't want to believe in God and the power of prayer, that is certainly your prerogative. Don't really see a reason as to why you'd need to mock people of faith in the process.
     
  3. .Andy, Sep 4, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012

    .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #3
    A pity god isn't into preventative medicine.


    Because it is absolutely dangerous (and ridiculous) to believe the supernatural has healed you. Or that it is a valid form of medicine. Believing in nonsense like this is what results in unnecessary morbidity and mortality. If this was a fracture through a growth plate in a pre-teen or adolescent the ramifications could have been catastrophic. It certainly is the religious person's prerogative to believe in the power of prayer, just as it is the prerogative of others to point out there is no evidence of efficacy.

    The bone in the second Xray has quite clearly formed a callus. If god healed that he has done a shoddy job it has still got a fixed deformity. He's managed the same as conservative treatment. The power of prayer - the equivalent of doing nothing.
     
  4. MorphingDragon thread starter macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #4
    I'm not mocking people who have a faith, if that's your perception it's entirely your problem. I'm just curious as to why some people would do this. I certainly didn't when I was a Christian, but I just never noticed.

    This is a forum for discussion about Religion and Social Issues, it doesn't have to be all politics.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #5
    Where in the world did you see mocking there? :confused:
     
  6. noisycats macrumors 6502a

    noisycats

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    #6
    ...because prayer didn't mend this clavicle?
     
  7. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #7
    Given the importance of immobilisation for union, prayer might have actually inhibited healing if he did the hand gesture :p.
     
  8. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #8
    I bust my hip a few years ago - and I soon learnt a lot than I ever thought I'd have to know those joints.

    God might be able to heal them but he/she sure as heck can't design them. The fail rate across the user base on the product lifespan (a Biblical three score and ten years) should surely warrant a complete redesign, full recall and replacement programme just for those two paired components alone.
     
  9. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #9
    I'm not saying that prayer is the only way to heal an injury. You still, obviously, have to set the bone. A little extra prayer on top of it certainly doesn't hurt.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    Id say prayer isn't even a way to heal injury....
     
  11. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #11
    If that's the case then I apologize. Some here tend to be fairly militant in their stance against religion and people of faith, so I obviously overreacted in my assumption that you were doing the same.
     
  12. MorphingDragon thread starter macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #12
    Except they also claim that God healed it instantly after the prayer/ because of the prayer.


    Don't worry, I'll still tell you that your faith is still unfounded. ;)
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    Once, a long time ago on a lark, myself and a friend wandered into a Pentecostal Church service where they had a miracle moment. At this time several members of the flock stood up and described their miracles from the past week. One guy had broken his leg, prayed, and he too was instantly healed. Praise The LORD! :)
     
  14. ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #14
    ...thus the word "faith" :D
     
  15. MorphingDragon thread starter macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #15
    I had Faith that my Dinner was going to be Delicious, and it was.
     
  16. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #16
    Praying makes God moves hurricane from Tampa

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypSiMgWgkc

    screws Louisiana in lieu :D

    ----------

    Could have spent the time praying reading something useful. In that sense, praying is as wasteful of your precious time as would licking carpets.

    (That's unfair to licking carpets, that would actually clean the floor and boost your immune system)
     
  17. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #17
    It certainly doesn't help either.
     
  18. MorphingDragon thread starter macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #18
    My Mum is putting off serious psychiatric help because Prayer does the same thing apparently.

    Baloney, she's taken Prozac for about 5 years now because of her Anxiety and Depression.
     
  19. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    #19
    Prayer - it looks bloody weird, sounds bloody weird and is utterly ineffective because there's no such thing as, well, ANYTHING supernatural.

    Except of course, the CW's "Supernatural" - that show actually exists.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    I think everybody "prays" in a way. A prayer is a wish for success or failure.

    I hope I sink this putt.

    I hope I win the lottery.

    I hope my cancer test comes back negative.

    I hope my collarbone heals well.


    Who doesn't think along these lines? The difference is when you attach an outside agent to the result of these wishes. That is IMO, simply an unnecessary add-on. Humans (generally) have hope. That is enough.
     
  21. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #21
    IMO, a prayer and a wish are two different things. A wish is merely a statement. I may say "I hope I win the lottery" knowing that whether or not I make that statement has no bearing on me winning the lottery. People who pray are making a request to a nonexistent being and truly believe whether or not they make that prayer has an influence on the result.
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    "The power of positive thinking" is a concept even an atheist can embrace.

    I think the mechanism is the same.
     
  23. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #23
    I've noticed something interesting at my doctors recently: there are two answers to questions about the effectiveness of complimentary treatments. When I ask my PCP if fish oil can help with cholesterol, the answer is "yes." When I ask my orthopedist if glucosamine and/or chondroitin can help with my knees, the answer is "it couldn't hurt."
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    I think hope is a direct byproduct of our minds being capable of projecting into the future.

    Not to try to take away the significance of it, if anything I think that concept makes it even more powerful.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    There is also an element of quid pro quo in prayer, one is attempting to strike a deal with the Almighty™.
     

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