VA reform update: Vet kills himself in parking lot

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #1
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/n...g-lot-of-va-hospital-on-long-island.html?_r=0

    In other news:
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-spend-nearly-20000-to-settle-every-refugee/article/2593331
    Feds spend nearly $20,000 to settle every refugee
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    How many times did Republicans kill increased veteran's benefits in the last 8 years? At least 5 as I recall.
     
  3. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #3
    I can say this about the VA I go to! I was there one time when an older Vet ( Vietnam Vet) was denied entry because they were telling him his records went transferred to computers yet! He was then told by another staffer that he wasn't a Vet (he lost his legs because of a mine). He and all the other Vets in hearing distance became load and complaining!

    Thankfully a Supervisor had to go find his very lengthy file to prove to lower staffer he was a long time Vet. He then ended up also doing suicide when his daughter died in car crash. :mad:
     
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Thankfully Obama didn't take away his gun?

    The number of times veteran assistance bills were rejected by a GOP-dominated government between 2001 and 2007, or the little change there has been ever since... there are days when "developing countries" are far more developed than the US, and they didn't have much compunction to go in and bring justice to terrorists...
     
  5. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #5
    Were these straight votes for increases to VA benefits or did the dems try to attach all types of ridiculous other provisions? Maybe slide it in with another bill that they wanted, holding VA hostage.

    I know at least one of these situations the dems were trying to break sequestration
     
  6. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #6
    You mean like attaching a defund Planned Parenthood amendment to a Zika virus bill?
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #7
    yes, BOTH sides like to attach crap to get bills killed.
    from article
     
  8. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
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    #8
    You can thank all the piece of **** Republicans who voted Nay on this bill.


    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=2&vote=00046

    Alphabetical by Senator Name
    Alexander (R-TN), Nay
    Ayotte (R-NH), Nay
    Baldwin (D-WI), Yea
    Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
    Begich (D-AK), Yea
    Bennet (D-CO), Yea
    Blumenthal (D-CT), Yea
    Blunt (R-MO), Nay
    Booker (D-NJ), Yea
    Boozman (R-AR), Nay
    Boxer (D-CA), Yea
    Brown (D-OH), Yea
    Burr (R-NC), Nay
    Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
    Cardin (D-MD), Yea
    Carper (D-DE), Yea
    Casey (D-PA), Yea
    Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
    Coats (R-IN), Nay
    Coburn (R-OK), Nay
    Cochran (R-MS), Nay
    Collins (R-ME), Nay
    Coons (D-DE), Yea
    Corker (R-TN), Nay
    Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
    Crapo (R-ID), Nay
    Cruz (R-TX), Nay
    Donnelly (D-IN), Yea
    Durbin (D-IL), Yea
    Enzi (R-WY), Nay
    Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
    Fischer (R-NE), Nay
    Flake (R-AZ), Nay
    Franken (D-MN), Yea
    Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea
    Graham (R-SC), Nay
    Grassley (R-IA), Nay
    Hagan (D-NC), Yea
    Harkin (D-IA), Yea
    Hatch (R-UT), Nay
    Heinrich (D-NM), Yea
    Heitkamp (D-ND), Yea
    Heller (R-NV), Yea
    Hirono (D-HI), Yea
    Hoeven (R-ND), Nay
    Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
    Isakson (R-GA), Nay
    Johanns (R-NE), Nay
    Johnson (D-SD), Yea
    Johnson (R-WI), Nay
    Kaine (D-VA), Yea
    King (I-ME), Yea
    Kirk (R-IL), Nay
    Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
    Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
    Leahy (D-VT), Yea
    Lee (R-UT), Nay
    Levin (D-MI), Yea
    Manchin (D-WV), Yea
    Markey (D-MA), Yea
    McCain (R-AZ), Nay
    McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
    McConnell (R-KY), Nay
    Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
    Merkley (D-OR), Yea
    Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
    Moran (R-KS), Yea
    Murkowski (R-AK), Not Voting
    Murphy (D-CT), Yea
    Murray (D-WA), Yea
    Nelson (D-FL), Not Voting
    Paul (R-KY), Nay
    Portman (R-OH), Nay
    Pryor (D-AR), Yea
    Reed (D-RI), Yea
    Reid (D-NV), Yea
    Risch (R-ID), Nay
    Roberts (R-KS), Nay
    Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
    Rubio (R-FL), Nay
    Sanders (I-VT), Yea
    Schatz (D-HI), Yea
    Schumer (D-NY), Yea
    Scott (R-SC), Nay
    Sessions (R-AL), Nay
    Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
    Shelby (R-AL), Nay
    Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
    Tester (D-MT), Yea
    Thune (R-SD), Nay
    Toomey (R-PA), Nay
    Udall (D-CO), Yea
    Udall (D-NM), Yea
    Vitter (R-LA), Nay
    Walsh (D-MT), Yea
    Warner (D-VA), Yea
    Warren (D-MA), Yea
    Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
    Wicker (R-MS), Not Voting
    Wyden (D-OR), Yea
     
  9. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #9
    Didn't take long for it to become a finger pointing exercise did it? All the focus is on money, more money. There's ZERO chance that maybe there's a problem that isn't solved with money. It couldn't be that they system has a flaw.

    Did the VA get their bonus money? Did we find money to destroy homes in Detroit? Did we find money for non-Americans so they can come here?

    Yea, we got money for that.

    <now back to our regularly scheduled finger pointing>
     
  10. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    #10
    You really don't understand how our society works, do you? For someone who claims to "love" capitalism, that's pretty funny.

    Everything takes money. You need money to fix problems. How are you going to figure out if the system is flawed? You need people to analyze the system and find it's flaws, and those people need to be paid. And they need resources that cost money.
     
  11. TheAppleFairy macrumors 68020

    TheAppleFairy

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    #11
    Sometimes things have enough money, but incompetent people in charge.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    THE WHOLE VA HAS BEEN UNDERFUNDED TO MEET NEEDS FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

    Obviously there are changes that can be made to the system, but the BIGGEST problem in every aspect of social services in America is that for decades we've been saying "I know we haven't funded adequately, but instead of adding funding in conjunction with structural changes, let's make those changes and continue to not fund it".

    This is the "starve the beast" tactic that has been waging since the 60's and until you people don't realize that one party is intentionally trying to break services so that they can be privatized it will continue.
     
  13. SandboxGeneral Moderator emeritus

    SandboxGeneral

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    #13
    While funding for the VA is a major concern, just like many other federal and state agencies, I think the problem is more localized in many cases. Part of this veteran's unfortunate death sounds like, from the NYT article, it was human problem. He was denied service and someone failed to, at minimum, provide him with alternatives which was the mental health building on campus. Granted, in the story the veteran didn't "present anything" that led them to believe he was in need of further assistance. Arm-chair quarter backing here, we can say that someone should have been more inquisitive with him to determine what more could have been done. But on the other hand, if he came in and seemed, more or less, fine, sometimes there isn't much more that can be done.

    I feel that in addition to appropriate funding across the VA system more training of the employees in care, compassion and listening skills could be implemented, especially in the facilities that are known to have numerous customer service problems.

    Not all VA facilities are terrible places to go. The one I visit when I need to, here in Michigan, is a top-notch facility. I've been there several times and know a few others I work with who go there as well and we all have great things to say about their care. Every one of the staff I dealt with was exceptionally helpful and listened to my needs (which weren't much) and ensured I had everything I needed and knew where to go in the facility. An x-ray technician even stopped what he was doing in the x-ray room when he finished with my knees, to come all the way out of the room, out of the x-ray lobby and into the main hallway just to help me find directions to the next spot I needed to go. It was a small thing, but he really went out of his way to make sure I knew where to go.

    My appointment and wait times have been reasonable and minimal, and quite shorter than my civilian doctors office visits usually are too.

    But I know my experience isn't the same that others have elsewhere in the country and that's why I think the VA's problems are more localized, facility by facility, rather than a fully systemic problem, with the exception of the funding issue.
     
  14. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #14
    Kinda like the war on poverty or ObamaCare. If we give ObamaCare $500 trillion per day, that'll fix it. It couldn't actually be that ObamaCare didn't actually fix anything.

    VA found money for bonuses, oh wait, that's not an actually flaw. It couldn't be that there's a flaw in how they do things.

    That's like saying that no matter what direction you take, you'll alway get to your destination if given enough money. So if I just head North, I'll get wherever I want as long as I just keep going. It could never, ever be the case that heading South could actually be a better idea.
     
  15. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #15
    Yet another reason to hate our Gub'ment. This men and women risked their lives fighting for us. Now that they're no long able to fight, they get tossed aside like a used soda can.:mad::mad::mad: These politicians need to get their heads out of their asses and get this fixed. I hate the military, but have a great deal of respect for our fighting men and women.

    George Orwell said it best: "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.":cool:
     
  16. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #16
    Great point. I see it like comparing different stores. Some stores offer great service, others offer bad service. This isn't a matter of money, it's a matter of people being trained and caring about the job they do.

    Using the age old "blame the budget" is just a lazy excuses for a flaw in the system.
     
  17. SandboxGeneral Moderator emeritus

    SandboxGeneral

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    #17
    Exactly. Money isn't the magic fix it button for things like this. Hiring and training intelligent and competent people who actually care about the job and care about people is really important in a health care system like the VA.
     
  18. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #18
    There are a few important points to consider whenever we talk about the VA.

    First, the Veterans Administration deals with some of the most difficult healthcare cases the nation has. The VA system has to deal with recently wounded veterans who have suffered catastrophic limb loss, veterans with severe—and poorly understood—traumatic brain injuries, and also manage the healthcare of thousands of elderly patients, who come with the complicated treatments linked to cancer, Alzheimers, etc.

    Second, the reason that we know and can track the wait times at the VA is because the VA, unlike most health providers, actually tracks wait times.

    Third, while staff and resources remained largely the same since 2001, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars created a massive influx of patients, coming at the same time that demographic shifts meant the VA was already short-staffed before the 2001 and 2003 wars.

    That's not a defense of the scandal in Phoenix, but rather it's important to note that the VA is dealing with patients that no other healthcare provider would take and maintain. Thus, comparisons between many private health care providers and the VA are simply false.

    No private insurer would be able to manage the number of TBI cases alone.
     
  19. Khalanad75 macrumors 6502

    Khalanad75

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    #19

    Wow, only Heller and Moran stepped out of party lines.
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    Money isn't a magic fix, but when an agency is underfunded just as resource demands spike, you're going to have severe problems.
     
  21. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #21
    Someone remind me which party had a SUPER majority that was VETO proof when Obama took office...

    Oh wait, that would be the Dems. They had FULL CONTROL of the government. Did they pass anything... Why yes they did... They passed ObamaCare. Cool, ObamaCare, how's that working?

    Hmmmmm.... Hard to blame the other team when you had a SUPER MAJORITY.

    <insert excuse and blame here, because that's all Dems ever have, excuses and blame>
     
  22. SandboxGeneral Moderator emeritus

    SandboxGeneral

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    #22
    No doubt about it. It takes money to hire and train the right people at the facilities that really need it.
     
  23. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #23
    So it's automatically "underfunded", there's no waste and they deserved all those bonuses they got. Hmmmm, ok. The problem with throwing out the "underfunded" card is that there is only one number that will fix anything. Infinity.
     
  24. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #24

    And here we have fact-free @KarlJay not knowing the difference between control of government and a veto proof majority. "A SUPER majority that was VETO proof?" Silly boy, if Dems controlled all 3 branches, why would they need a veto proof majority?

    Let me school you. The Dems had 60 seats in the Senate giving them enough to kill filibusters. However, with Kennedy on his deathbed and Republicans trying to delay the seating of a legitimately elected Senator, they had that majority for very little time.
     
  25. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #25
    That doesn't automatically make it the problem.

    Henry Ford had a problem and a solution. He needed to reduce the cost of production of the Model T. While others cut labor costs, and other means, Ford used the assembly line. It worked, he ended up with 1/2 the cars on earth being Fords.

    Sometimes you got to look at HOW you do what you do.
     

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