Vaccination fears cost herd immunity in Arizona

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by hulugu, May 22, 2012.

  1. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #1
    A review by reporters at the Arizona Daily Star found that one in three schools in Pima County had vaccination rates so low children were "...left vulnerable to infectious disease outbreaks such as measles, mumps or pertussis."

    The worst offenders were charter and private schools.


    Private and charter schools are the worst offenders:

    Natural medicine and homeopathy ideals seem to be the primary driver of this result, as parents believe that the vaccines are somehow tainted or dangerous.

    Link.
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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  3. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #3
    Would it be borderline child abuse to not vaccinate your child when there's hard evidence that we lose herd immunity and thus endager them of some really nasty diseases?

    I mean, by not vaccinating them, they are not only endagering their own children, but others as well. Systematic ignorance can be pretty dangerous...
     
  4. CalBoy macrumors 604

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    #4
    I think it should be considered so.

    I normally like to leave a lot of discretion to parents in raising their children, but basic health and safety can't be something that gets interfered with based on belief. All non-allergic children should have to be vaccinated, beliefs be damned.
     
  5. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Vaccination of children should be compulsory. Exceptions only in extreme circumstances.
     
  6. Daffodil macrumors 6502

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    Ugh, this really gets me riled up. :mad: Needless pain and suffering because some science-hating skeptics out there take it upon themselves that their kid will be "better off" without important vaccinations, thus putting everyone at risk...
     
  7. NickZac macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Yes, it is reckless. I do not care about your religious beliefs in this sense. You want to be a US citizen? Then there are requirements. And vaccinations should absolutely be one of them. The reason is because not vaccinating will result in other people dying. If you want your kids to go to school with my kids, your kids are getting the MMR vaccine, among others, and so will my kids. No exceptions other than those with weakened immune systems that cannot handle the vaccine, in which these individuals are (or should I say WERE) protected by herd immunity. *******s like Jenny McCarthy, Tom Cruise, and a bunch of other whackjob celebs with money have promoted that vaccines cause autism and that natural remedies cures virtually everything and the public has sucked it up as if it were free Oxy Contin. The first is not true at all and the second is heavily exaggerated. No, there are no ingredients in modern vaccines that have ever been found to have a positive correlation with autism prevalence and no, magnesium and vitamin C is not going to cure tuberculosis. If you ever hear a parent who starts talking about not vaccinating their kids, tell them "Stop. Think. Talk to your doctor about getting kids vaccined because pornstars do not give good medical knowledge."
     
  8. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

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    #8
    I do not believe the state should be allowed to force you to immunize after 18.
     
  9. CalBoy macrumors 604

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    #9
    That's a trickier proposition since so many adults can have an impact of the safety of society.

    At the very minimum certain professions like doctors, nurses, teachers, police, firefighters, people who handle large amounts of food, and parents of minors should be vaccinated.
     
  10. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #10
    absolutely unacceptable in public schools.
    they should just perform the vaccinations at school, with or without the parent's approval, unless there are serious medical reasons.

    and in general, parents who oppose it should be charged with child endangerment.
     
  11. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

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    #11
    And home-schooled, and kept under quarantine. :rolleyes:
     
  12. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #12
    The story was interesting for a couple of reasons. First, there's the vaccine question. While there's no proof that vaccines cause autism, there's obviously proof that whooping cough is still a deadly disease and remains in the population precisely because some part of the population just doesn't believe in it.

    The second question is the notion of individual freedom versus the needs of a society. Should individual parents be able to refuse, for whatever wackadoodle reason, to vaccinate their kids? If they do refuse, what are the consequences? How forcefully can schools act against these parents and their children?

    The third is, private and charter schools are the worst offenders since they are less regulated and often do not keep a school nurse, arguably one of the only public health officials parents will be in contact with. Does this show a structural problem with the design of private, charter, and for-profit schools?
     
  13. vega07 macrumors 65816

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    #13
    There is no more individual "freedom" if you're dying in a hospital bed and infecting others.
     
  14. EricNau Moderator emeritus

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    #14
    I think parents will always be entitled to that choice, legally. It's engrained in our society; unfortunately, we have the right to make poor decisions (a view I don't advocate, but am resigned to accept). But the freedom to choose shouldn't waive personal responsibility. If a parent makes the wrong choice and their child dies as a result, hold them responsible for that death.

    I think so. Private schools shouldn't be exempt from providing children with a safe learning environment, and fact is, schools with an unvaccinated child (and staff) population are not safe.
     
  15. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    I tend to agree. The liability might be hard to prove, but schools should enforce these rules among student populations and waivers should be incredibly limited, if allowed at all.

    The problem really is the lack of state enforcement and as far as I can tell, a lack of enforcement throughout the U.S. Public health has been given a short-shrift here and there's really no mechanism to change it.
     
  16. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #16
    It's dumb not to vaccinate your child, since these vaccines have been proven not to be linked to autism. However, I'm more afraid of the erosion of personal freedoms. I don't want every aspect of my life to be dictated to me "for my own good". There are times when government recommendations are wrong and citizens need the right to refuse these recommendations.

    Sadly, I think it will take a few outbreaks among unvaccinated children before we begin to see parents participating again. That will undoubtedly mean deaths, but vaccinated kids should at least have advantage when these outbreaks occur.
     
  17. Daffodil macrumors 6502

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    Yeah, but what about those who are immunocompromised, or for whatever other legitimate medical reason unable to receive the vaccine? Do people's "personal freedoms" extend to the point where they can willfully endanger other "innocents?"

    Effective herd immunity does not require literally every single person to be vaccinated, but for those unfortunates who cannot receive the vaccine, it matters even more that the rest of us who *can* be vaccinated actually *are.* This is why I think it goes beyond being one of those issues where you simply leave it up to the parents to figure out what's best for their child some time down the line...
     
  18. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #18
    Sure, but the problem is the lack of consequences for the expression of your personal freedoms. The interface between individuals becomes complicated when enough parents refuse to vaccinate their kids that the 'herd immunity' fails and thus, other kids are more likely to be exposed to dangerous diseases.

    It's a variation of the tragedy of the commons, people are so self-interested that they compromise society (and by consequence themselves) in the process.
     
  19. CalBoy macrumors 604

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    #19
    I don't think it's really about being in your own good. It's about the well-being of those who can't partake in the protections afforded to all of us by modern medicine, such as infants, the immunocompromised, and the elderly.

    I mean I really don't care if some hippie moms in Berkeley catch whooping cough or get tetanus because they were too stupid to get a once in a decade shot. I do care that they could pass on that whooping cough to their infant children, grandchildren, neighbors, etc.

    And of course that's exactly what's happened. 2010 and 2011 saw huge spikes in whooping cough cases in infants because vaccination levels dropped below herd immunity levels in many counties across the country. That's why I think it's ok to mandate vaccination for lots of people, if not all of them. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with everyone else.

    And if the needles bother some of you, don't worry, I think they will still give out lollypops to grown adults. ;)
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    #20
    Seatbelt laws? Toy safety laws? Lead-free paint? aren't all of these issues and others taken for granted today? Would any sensible parent want to go back to the days when such laws didn't exist? I think there's a time period where people are allowed to and should question the validity of such laws but when it comes to the safety of vaccines, it's time for everyone to be onboard.
     
  21. OutThere macrumors 603

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    I think the reason that these vaccine fears have been able to get such a foothold is that we, as a society, have been protected and distanced from these horrible, often fatal, crippling or disfiguring childhood diseases for so long. The current generation of parents is too young to have any memory of the realities of these diseases, and what the vaccines are actually preventing. Vaccines are a true miracle of modern medicine, and one that we've grown to take for granted.
     
  22. EricNau Moderator emeritus

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    #22
    I think you're very right. Problem is, it would appear the solution requires these diseases to come back, which is exactly what we're seeing. Luckily, I suppose this means it will correct itself.

    Hopefully we can educate the public and change their minds without letting children die. Hopefully.
     
  23. Heilage macrumors 68030

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    #23
    It would certainly be better if people stopped being stupid and hundreds of children didn't die of nasty diseases.
     
  24. EricNau Moderator emeritus

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    #24
    I fear it will be thousands, if it's not already.
     
  25. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #25
    And thanks to the ignorance of their parents, even.
     

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