Vandalism mars Pride Parade: Tires punctured on 51 floats

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Ok, I know a lot of you people are opposed to gay rights, but none of us have ever vandalized your churches or sabotaged your parades. This is pure hate.

    Damn right. You haters will never stop us- never. I'm pretty sure this happened as a result of recent gay rights victories here and in NY. Doesn't matter- we banded together and had a great day anyway.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...t-noon-on-north-side-20110626,0,1844698.story
     
  2. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    No comments? I found this disturbing. This has never happened in the 18 years I've lived here. We will find these ***holes.
     
  3. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #3
    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    They're at the last stages of "they fight you." It's a desperate last attempt to defy the present and the future.

    I'm going to enjoy saying "we win" over the next decade.
     
  4. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #4
    Any crime against gays is automatically a hate crime? Punctured float tires is disturbing?

    There seems to be some key element to the story that I'm missing or it's just not a big deal...
     
  5. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    You're right. Seeing what I saw here the past week, we have won. Thanks to all of you.
     
  6. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #6
    Is it your contention that it was just a coincidence that the 51 tires punctured were on floats in a parade dedicated primarily to gay pride?

    Let me see if I have this scenario straight... a little theatre of the mind, gentlemen:

    "Dude, I'm in a mood to puncture some tires. Where can we go to puncture as many as we can in a short time?"

    "Well, there's this parade happening tomorrow. The floats will be just sitting there. We can puncture tires on them!"

    "Cool!"


    Excuse me if I don't heartily embrace this scenario...
     
  7. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #7
    depends I can think of quite a few punk kids would would do something like that for no other reason that to cause trouble. TO them it does not matter if it was a gay pride parade or the Thanksgiving day pirade. They just want to cause trouble.

    With out the graphite it is kind of hard to prove that it is a hate crime.
     
  8. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #8
    Perhaps someone could call up the statistics on how many previous occasions that this has happened before the Thanksgiving Day parade. :)
     
  9. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #9
    I can see your point. Without knowing who it was it's hard to prove motivation. But, damn, puncturing tires on 51 floats is a heck of a lot of work. And maybe we are paranoid, but with everything that's going on in this country now, can you blame us?

    Sometimes there are coincidences and sometimes things are exactly what they seem.
     
  10. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #10
    honestly I would not call it a lot of work. With lets say 4 kids it would take what 5 mins top.

    Honestly I think it was not a hate crime but more an crime of opertunity to take it out one something that the kids/there parents did not like. Saw it and went after it but I would not put it up to hate crime. I bet if anyone saw them they would of ran like hell laughing.
     
  11. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #11
    Umm... Not that it makes this ok, but that is not true. Right after prop 8 passed there was a lot of vandalism against churches, I can find links if you really want them, but I think you remember. That said it's wrong when either side does it.
     
  12. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    By all means, find the links. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you can't back up your claim, retract it.

    And BTW- when you take away people's rights, they're going to fight back. This is just an annual parade, nothing more. How does that compare?
     
  13. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    #13
    Really? I think this would be something that you can easily find and yet, I cannot.

    Lee, btw, it was only 3 hours between your OP and your follow up, I don't think people don't care I think it was Sunday night and maybe a slower night on MR. ;) That said, it is shame that people who would do this exist all because they want to somehow protect "marriage". Marriage that many straight people take for granted on a daily basis.
     
  14. mrkramer, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011

    mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #14
    Here's one. This one was both sides stealing signs. Another.plus some death threats. It's comparable because you said gays or their supporters have never vandalized churches.

    Do you need more examples or do you want to retract your unsubstantiated claim that gays have never vandalized churches?
     
  15. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Umm, I'm sorry- stealing signs compares to flattening tires? Really? Are you serious? Wow. I guess that was really tough and cost a lot of money and impeded the church's ability to hold services. That's really weak, dude. I'll give you that fact that stealing sign is not cool, but that does not even compare. There was no structural damage done to any church in your links.
     
  16. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #17
    Sorry, my links where a little messed up, but they are fixed now. Only one had to do with stealing signs, the others where spray painting, and putting signs into a swastika, and death threats maybe those last two are not technically vandalism but they still disprove your claim that gay rights advocates never do anything similar. Plus there are a lot more instances, so do you want to retract your claim?
     
  17. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Claim retracted. Calm down. At least I can admit a mistake.

    Now show me where gay people have tried to take away Christian's rights by law. Let's go for it, since you think this is comparable. Like I said before, I can understand when people fight back because their rights have been taken from them. I cannot understand why anyone would do something like this over a celebration.
     
  18. aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #19
    IMO, every cause has its own subset of poopheads that take things too far. GBLT causes aren't somehow magically immune to this.

    It appears there was enough Prop 8 backlash against "religious institutions" that the Anti Defamation League issued a public condemnation of it.
    ADL Condemns Criminal Activity Targeting Religious Institutions That Supported Proposition 8

    If you google variants of "church vandalism prop 8", it's (unfortunately) not too difficult to come up with results.

    Vandals attack 3 LDS churches in Layton

    Suspected anti-Prop. 8 vandals strike San Francisco church

    Anti-Prop 8 Vandals Strike a Gay-Friendly Church

    Update: sorry, started this post earlier this morning and finished it an hour later after others had posted similar links.

    IMO, violence/vandalism isn't justified in either regard -- rights taken away, or over a celebration.
     
  19. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    Did I say it was? Point that out to me. Show me where I said it was OK. The only thing I said was that one is understandable, the other is not.

    There is no comparison here. Gay people are not taking away Christians' rights, plain and simple.
     
  20. aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #21
    Did I say you said that? Point that out to me. Show me where I said you said that. I was giving my opinion on the subject in general, thus the IMO and lack of (quote)(/quote) around anything you said.

    Rights and religious beliefs both appear to inspire poopheads to do (IMO) stupid things. I think that comparisons are subjective to where one stands on an issue, and that there's a likely chance that the poopheads that popped the tires feel that their actions are understandable based on their views.
     
  21. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #22
    I agree, but there is an order of magnitude issue involved that I think needs to be remembered.

    Graffiti, stealing signs, and so on is minor vandalism, but it doesn't stop the church(es) from performing their services or even cost them very much to restore (not that they don't deserve to be compensated).

    On the other hand, slashing tires on anywhere from 12-51 floats is a real problem because it will delay or prevent the parade from occurring as normal.

    I also remember reading an expose in my local paper shortly after Prop 8 passed that was all about these supposed vandalism cases. In many cases, the police were never able to say conclusively who did what (ie they suspected internal foul play in a few cases), possibly because many churches did try to play the victim card after Prop 8 passed. I'm not suggesting that every church did this, but it's something we should keep in mind when we discuss the religious right, which has often staged reality to make itself seem weak.

    More importantly though, LGBT leaders and public activists denounced the vandalism very quickly. I have yet to see the opposition to same-sex marriage denounce this kind of vandalism when it happens to parade floats, AIDS clinics, etc. That is something we can hold the leadership, and not the "poopheads" responsible for.
     
  22. aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #23
    I totally agree.
     
  23. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #24
    We'll, don't ever stoop to that level....

    Being a Christian, I've been the object of hate from them (for having a different Theology, not having that house with a picket-white fence, disagreeing with a church leader, or whatever).

    If Christians are capable of hating there own... :eek:
     
  24. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #25
    I said it was comparable in that both sides have vandalized each others things. It's not right in either case, if your rights are being taken away fight in the courts and in elections, not through vandalism.

    I also never said that gay marriage takes away Christian's rights, I'm in favor of gay marriage as long as there are protections so churches can't be sued for following their beliefs. The bill in New York is a good example of balancing everyone's rights. Although your challenging me to find an example of gay people taking away Christian's rights made me search on google where I found this which confirmed to me why we need protection for the rights of religious people in addition to gays, unless free speech isn't a right that is as important as marriage.
     

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