Vatican rejects Intelligent Design.

atszyman

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Original poster
Sep 16, 2003
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Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly.
His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US, who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.

"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".

This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the precise details of how creation and the development of the species came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science saw things so as to "understand things better".

His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the "intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that some higher being must have designed every detail.
link
 

Thanatoast

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Dec 3, 2002
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mactastic said:
Holy crap. I'm stunned. If that's real and lasting, it's gonna hurt the ID movement here.
How come? Everyone knows Catholics aren't real Christians anyway. That's why we left their church hundreds of years ago. ;)
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
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Well, not exactly "rejects". More like... "appends". Thank you fundamentalists for forcing the Church to distance itself from you.

Anybody else see American Dad last night? It was drawing parallels between fundamentalist Muslims and fundamentalist Christians. Even if the show sucks sometimes, they made some good points. Perhaps some of the more progressive members of the Vatican want to make the distinction clear so what is happening in America right now doesn't continue.
 

tristan

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Jul 19, 2003
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Yeah, I love American Dad, especially since I used to live in "Langley Falls", aka McLean, VA.

There's something going on right now which is making many people worldwide more fundamentalist. I think it's related to globalization and the pace of technological change, but I don't completely understand it. I have to say that the lower your IQ, the stronger the effects seem to be.
 

Chacala_Nayarit

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Oct 6, 2005
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DRUNK MEXICAN SPOTS VIRGIN MOTHER IN BOWEL MOVEMENT

FREEHOLD IA-- After relieving himself of Tuesday night's Chalupa surprise dinner, José Hernandez was shocked when he found the Mother of Jesus staring up at him out of the toilet bowl. Four hours later, after transporting his stool to a local Catholic church, thousands of Mary worshippers were lined up to scratch and sniff the Virgin Mother. Later that week it was found that the display violated several sanitation ordinances, thereby allowing the Godly members of Landover Baptist church to act on the Lord's behalf. Health inspectors issued 14 citations against the Roman Church. In addition, they carted away a partially decomposed shrunken saint's head, and a small glass vial marked "Seed of Jesus."

That's inteligunt desine stool! :D
 

Thomas Veil

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Feb 14, 2004
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Indeed. The Church can be quite maddening -- dogmatic on some issues, open-minded on others -- but evolution has been accepted by the Church for a while.

(The other Catholic concept I love is the very narrow definition of a "just" war. Needless to say, the current Iraq conflict doesn't come anywhere near to meeting that definition.)
 

rickvanr

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Apr 10, 2002
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This ought to knock down the super nutty christians down a peg or two.

I'm a fan of progress. Without moving with the times (earth not being the center of the universe, evolution, etc..) the church would become obsolete and just a bunch of crazy fanatics.
 

solvs

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Jun 25, 2002
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tristan said:
There's something going on right now which is making many people worldwide more fundamentalist.
It's probably the approaching Apocalypse.

Thomas Veil said:
but evolution has been accepted by the Church for a while.
News to me.

Thomas Veil said:
Needless to say, the current Iraq conflict doesn't come anywhere near to meeting that definition.
I had heard the previous Pope was against the war. But Bush is against gays and abortion and progress, so Catholics voted for him. Even if Kerry was a Catholic.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

rickvanr said:
This ought to knock down the super nutty christians down a peg or two.
You'd think. But no.
 

takao

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Dec 25, 2003
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actually it's old news.. just last year such statements were already made by the former head of conregation of faith which has stepped up a rank since then ;)
 

jelloshotsrule

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Feb 7, 2002
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Thomas Veil said:
(The other Catholic concept I love is the very narrow definition of a "just" war. Needless to say, the current Iraq conflict doesn't come anywhere near to meeting that definition.)
and yet when i brought that up with my mom's catholic nut friends last year before the election... they tried to claim the pope hadn't condemned the war.... uggh
 

solvs

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Jun 25, 2002
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jelloshotsrule said:
and yet when i brought that up with my mom's catholic nut friends last year before the election... they tried to claim the pope hadn't condemned the war.... uggh
Everyone knows the Pope loves killing people.

That would have been funnier with the last Pope. I'm not so sure about the current one. They should have gone with the Nigerian guy. I wonder how many Catholics would have been cool with that.
 

plinden

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Apr 8, 2004
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jelloshotsrule said:
and yet when i brought that up with my mom's catholic nut friends last year before the election... they tried to claim the pope hadn't condemned the war.... uggh
Easy to refute their claim.
Bring up google.
Type in: pope war Iraq
View results.
 

jelloshotsrule

macrumors G3
Feb 7, 2002
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serendipity
plinden said:
Easy to refute.
Bring up google.
Type in: pope war Iraq
View results.
from the first result:

The most consistent and frequent promoter of peace and human rights for the last two decades has been Pope John Paul II.

From Iraqi War I to Iraqi War II, he has echoed the voice of Paul VI, crying out before the United Nations in 1965: War No More, War Never Again!

John Paul II stated before the 2003 war that this war would be a defeat for humanity which could not be morally or legally justified.
http://www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.html


i'm not sure if you were saying he was for or against......
 

GorillaPaws

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Oct 26, 2003
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Richmond, VA
Hey guys, this is my first post in the Political Forum, and I hate to be THAT guy, but what's so wrong w/ the intelligent design argument (I'm not saying it should be taught as science in public school or anyting)? I'm a philosophy major and of all Thomas Aquinas' arguments for the existence of a Divine being, I thought his intelligent design argument was the best. For those who haven't read it, the super quick modified (for simplicity/brevity)version goes like this:
-A caveman(or any person ignorant of technology) walks in woods and stubles on a watch.
-Even though he's never seen one before, and has no understanding of how it works, the complex interworkings of the device leads the caveman to believe that this is not a random phenomena, but had to have been crafted by something w/ intelligence.
-The world/universe is lke a watch because it is very intricate (too intricate to be random) and therefore, even though we may not fully understand who created it, or how it works, we can infer that something with an intelligence must have created it.

Now I'm not a religious dude or anything, but I do think this argument has some merrit to it. Especially since it seems to be able to coincide w/ evolutionary theory e.g. what if that intelligent design of the universe only consisted of the laws of physics and nature, and the rest just evolved from there? Something like this seems to satisfy both the scientists claims and yet provides some justification for believing in some sort of divine power, No?
 

zimv20

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Jul 18, 2002
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GorillaPaws said:
what's so wrong w/ the intelligent design argument (I'm not saying it should be taught as science in public school or anyting)?
you're hit upon the correct point: where should it be taught? the current debate and lawsuits are about teaching it in science class in public schools.

personally, i think ID is crap. it's not even a real theory, just conjecture to fit a preconceived notion. i wouldn't object so much to having it taught in, say, a philosophy class. but let's not pretend it's something it's not.
 

skunk

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Jun 29, 2002
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GorillaPaws said:
-The world/universe is lke a watch because it is very intricate (too intricate to be random) and therefore, even though we may not fully understand who created it, or how it works, we can infer that something with an intelligence must have created it.
Unfortunately for that argument, the world is not like a watch at all, not that watches had been invented in Aquinas' time. This is philosophical speculation, not empirical science.
No.