Veganism

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by (marc), Jul 12, 2011.

  1. (marc), Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011

    (marc) macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #1
    During my entire life, I have always eaten "normally", that is dairy products, meat, you name it.

    But during the past year, I talked to some vegans, finding many reasons to become vegan (e.g. watching Earthlings) and I have found no reason against becoming vegan, except habit. So I have slowly become convinced that eating animals, and products which involve animals, is wrong. How can one possibly accept the mass murder (and prior terrible suffering) of animals each and every day? Thus, I have decided to try to become a vegan.

    What do you think about veganism / vegetarianism? Specifically, if you do eat meat, how do you justify it?
     
  2. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #2
    Can a shark eat seaweed? :p

    And, seriously, The Holocaust!!! :mad:
     
  3. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #3
    More vegans means more meat for me.

    It's tasty.
     
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    This is the type of over-the-top post that gives vegans a bad name. The Holocaust, are you ****ing serious? :rolleyes:
     
  5. (marc) thread starter macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #5
    Why? Where's the big difference? I do value the life of a human more than that of an animal, but that doesn't mean I don't value an animal's life. If you own a dog you know it feels emotions and so does every animal. It's not like you need any intelligence to suffer, and that's the only thing that sets us apart from animals.

    I know comparing x to the Holocaust is a touchy issue, and I would have reacted much like you only a year ago, but if you think rationally about it, it does make sense.
     
  6. fireshot91 macrumors 601

    fireshot91

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    #6
    I've thought about going vegan/vegetarian (I know the difference), but I can't imagine what I would actually eat..


    So, I started eating a fruit salad every day, which gives me all the nutrients from the fruits that I really need. Then, I realized that only a fruit salad wasn't enough, so I packed a sandwich or two. But in the end, I'm still a 'normal' eater.
     
  7. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #7
    You said it here. It's normal. Human beings have eaten animals for protein and more for over 200,000 years. Vegans try to fight the "cruelty" of it, but it's a necessary evil of life. Or a circle, if you're all about Ser Elton.

    Are you freaking serious?...

    I justify it by biological and digestive necessity. Go for it dude. Do what makes you happy. I'm just letting you know, from experience and research, that you're going to need to consume animal flesh sometimes. Your health will be compromised otherwise.
     
  8. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #8
    I think if you want to be a vegan or a vegetarian go for it. Sorry, I don't have to justify eating meat.
     
  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #9
    Yep, and since our friend likes hyperbole, it's like asking me to justify my religious beliefs.

    I love meat, religiously. All praise our Lord Bessie.
     
  10. (marc) thread starter macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #10
    Apparently, if you watch out and eat supplements if necessary, it's possible without compromising one's health.

    See post #5.

    That's okay. :) I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I'm surprised the mood's getting so aggressive in here after such a short time...
     
  11. (marc) thread starter macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #11
    If you're not atheist, I just might do that :D
     
  12. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #12
    Ignoring the dramatic tone of your posts I'd recommend you start out with being a vegetarian first. Your body may not like the rapid change in diet. Also be sure to read up on supplements when/if you do go vegan because there are some nutrients that are not so easy to replace without an animal being involved in some way/form or another.

    I d/won't justify it but I am a very selective meat eater that might be a vegetarian if it were not for being married to an extremely fussy eater. One of the only things of substance he eats is meat and I am far too lazy to cook totally separate meals for us both. I suspect I'd miss meat too much to stick with it anyway. I gave it a try in high school, lost a lot of muscle-mass and energy that I needed not to get my ass kicked in taekwondo and finally remedied it with a steak.
     
  13. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #13
    This is funny, considering your justify "challenge", right from the get-go.

    Reap what you sow.

    And I would tell you it's none of your damn business.

    BTW Agnostic, and Lord Bessie is my chosen Personal Saviour. :p
     
  14. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #14
    You can be a vegan just don't be a dick about it. Humans have been eating meat for thousands of years without pointless guilt trips. While you're at it get rid of your leather belt and shoes, don't date anyone who wears make-up. Because no matter what you do the "holocaust" will still be happening.

    Go ahead and eat only vegetables, you're still going to die just like everyone else. If you were really cool you'd become macrobiotic.
     
  15. arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #15
    OP, I can kind of understand your sentiment.
    A few days before Christmas last year I had to get into a large UK supermarket. The shelves, row after row of the cheapest produced mass-production meats really filled me with revulsion. Pale flacid flesh. The discarded and squashed ones lying on the floor. Greedy people pawing over the dead carcasses. I literally felt the bile rising in my throat. I despise the horror of mass-produced meat. The suffering animals go through… and the waste. And if that was my only choice I would go vegan.

    However! That being said. I am not a vegan/vegetarian and the thought of never eating meat again is not something I'd like to contemplate. :)

    In our house we eat mostly vegetarian — but the meat we do eat we buy directly from farmers who really do give you quality meat and care about their animals. (Just do an online search) Oh and don't believe the bulls*** some supermarkets try to fobb you off with about their caring suppliers and them sharing their "values". :rolleyes:

    Get your meat directly from small farmers — get to know your supplier.
    This past weekend we had some tasy lamb on the barbecue. Nothing went to waste. Guilt? Not a bit.
    Respect the animal you eat and say thanks.
    Sentimental? Perhaps.

    Personally I think people eat far too much meat anyway.
     
  16. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #16
    Probably due to the absurd nature of your Holocaust analogy, especially since you've already admitted you understand that it's not six of one, half dozen of another.

    I'd like this discussion to remain on the topic of veganism, so maybe you could consider editing that part out. I don't want anyone censoring themselves here, but I hope you understand it'd only be for the sake of staying on topic.
     
  17. palpatine macrumors 68040

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    #17
    i'm an herbivore. not quite a vegan, because i still have cheese once in a while.

    as much as possible, i prefer not to kill animals or make them suffer in order to feed me. i don't think you really need any more justification than that. it's not a condemnation of omnivores (my partner is one). it's a statement of how i want to live my life.

    because i am a pretty picky eater, i actually find it easier to live this way. it is certainly healthier (in my case), because i have lost weight and i feel much more energetic (changed my life about ten years ago).

    anyhow, there are great cookbooks / vegetarian sites out there, and it only takes a little bit of imagination to enjoy a wide variety of foods. and, in the us at least, there are wonderful products available to help you get your protein and b12.

    ask your doctor if you are unsure, but i have seen no studies that show your health will be compromised. it is my understanding that there is no biological necessity to eat animal flesh.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    OP, seriously? You aren't doing a good job of winning people to your side.

    Bottom line, something must die in order for us to live, whether it is plant or animal. I grew up in farm country and killed and butchered animals with my own hands for food. I see no problem with it at all. Now, I'm against factory farming as well, but I'm sorry, I have no problem eating animals.

    Not all people can be like you. Some people do need to have animal protein. I've known friends ordered by their doctors to eat animal protein after years of being vegan. Also, B12 is solely obtained from animals.

    I personally feel awful and have no energy if I don't eat meat for long periods.
     
  19. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #19
    Good post. And oh do I know what you mean about the mass-produced meat (bleeeuuuugh) in supermarkets, especially when it's been, uh, pawed through and left to look a mess. However I can't say I know any local farmers in central London so I think I'm stuck with free-range from the shops. :p
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    Homo sapiens is not vegan or vegetarian, we're omnivores. There's nothing wrong with that although many Americans would do well to increase their fruit/veg intake and cut back on the meat.

    I don't like the cruelty argument about eating meat. We, whether we like it or not, are animals first and that's what animals do, eat meat.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Really? It's very easy to get meat from local farmers in Chicago. There are restaurants that specifically get all their foods from local farms right outside the city.
     
  22. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #22
    Yes, Toronto has the St. Lawrence Market, which is large and well-attended.

    Perhaps London proper does not have this type of retail available?
     
  23. arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #23
    True. :p Local in London has a broader meaning… but they all deliver — from Angelsey down to Cornwall.
    You can get better quality meat for cheaper or at least the same price as the stuff from a supermarket.

    And its always nice getting something extra in the delivery box — a dozen fresh eggs or some bones for the stock pot — I even get chicken feet for my cats. :)

    Another advantage is you don't have to deal with the clueless meat counter staff. When talking to a small butcher or farmer you get the cut you want. No fuss. No long face.
     
  24. (marc) thread starter macrumors 6502a

    (marc)

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    #24
    Sounds good - I'd do that if I lived in a rural area. But since I live in a city, this isn't possible.

    While I still don't see the big difference, as described in #5, I have edited the part out.

    Feel free to answer post #5.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    I find that difficult to believe.
     

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