Venezuela

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cave Man, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Solver macrumors 6502a

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  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #3
    do hope trump stay away from there militarily wise.
     
  3. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #4
    I dunno man, he needs his war
     
  4. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Isn’t the military firmly on Maduro’s side? This doesn’t sound very promising.
     
  5. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #6
    Since when has "not very promising" ever stopped POTUS from making war?
     
  6. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    No one needs a war, but It does kind of sound like a war,
     
  7. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #8
    I don't know the full scope of whose doing what, but hopefully the innocent civilians have a means to get out of any firing line and keep safe. Like all political disasters that lead to the destabilization of the country, it's always the citizens who take the brunt of it the worst.

    Good luck down there.
     
  8. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #9
    Uh...I’m not talking about Trump. I’m talking about what’s going on currently in Caracas.

    Maduro needs to be gone, but civilians vs military doesn’t sound like a great idea.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 30, 2019 ---
    Here are the cliff notes.

    In 1999, Venezuela elected a “democratic socialist” named Hugo Chavez, who consolidated power around himself, expropriated all private enterprise and played Robin Hood. It was all fine and everyone loved it until Chavez began to run out of other people’s money. So he simply decided to print more.

    That, coupled with a fall in oil prices (Venezuela’s major export..of which all the businesses were government stole...er, ran) caused the currency to become worthless, and since the government owned everything, no wealth was being created, so Venezuela plunged into a dystopian economic disaster...just like all centrally planned economies eventually do.

    Today, the country is run by a guy named Nicolás Maduro, Chavez’s hand-picked successor. He’s (no surprise) equally socialist and heavily authoritarian, so while his people starve and wait in 12 hour long lines for toilet tissue, he also throws them in prison for doing things like, using dollars instead of Venezuela’s worthless currency.

    In short, the Venezuelans voted for a democratic socialist and got the natural consequence of that. No matter how democratic the process is for putting a socialist in power, he’s still a socialist.
     
  9. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    So do the Venezuelan people have more equalness or less equalness than 20 years ago?
     
  10. BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Definitely lots of equality now.

    Hey, they’re all poor and destitute, but at least there’s no inequality anymore. Yay!
     
  11. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #12
    While i'm not going to follow up on your really unecessary and non-factual diatribe against democratic socialism, sounds like Venezuela ran into a similar problem with any other country that allows for centralization of power within a few poeple unquestioned (this can also happen in capitalist societies).

    Authoritarianism needs to be fought off and prevented from taking route no matter what political spectrum they claim to be from. Trump would be a great example of a democratic capitalistic country putting into power someone who would take authoritarian control if it weren't for the entrenched checks and balances put into the constitution. Something it looks like Venezuela did not have in place.
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #13
    disarmed civilians are nothing but subjects :(
    videos are popping up about a military coup in Venezuela today
     
  13. BeeGood, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019

    BeeGood macrumors 68000

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    #14
    Isn’t it interesting that socialist countries have more of a tendency to do this?

    And it’s completely necessary because we have people like Bernie Sanders (who was very supportive of Chavez and continues to be supportive of Maduro) who imagine that putting the word “democratic” in front of a garbage ideology somehow turns it into something good.
     
  14. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #15
    Which part is not factual?
     
  15. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    and....

     
  16. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

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    #17
    Source please.
     
  17. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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  18. Makayla macrumors regular

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  19. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #20
    like typical fear mongering people who scream "socialism evil", it's clear you don't have basic understanding of political spectrum, and ideologies outside those you believe to be the best. it's this ignorance that you betray by using "Socialism" as a boogie man for anything evil and can be racked up there as relevant as mcarthism and the labeling of anything/evrything as communism just to make it a negative.

    We've dsicussed this in numerous threads. Heck I even made a post pointing out that the political spectrum isn't some "Left vs Right" thing where Right is "freedom" and left is "authoritarian" and that it's at LEAST a 2 axis spectrum with a "lefts vs right" and a "north vs south"

    Lefts vs Right paradigm which tends to focus on economic principles of Capitalism vs Socialism are generally devoid of claims of authoritarianism, which exists on the north/south spectrum.

    you can have socialistic practices in place, and still be low on the authoritarian spectrum. Countries like that tend to do very well. (The Scandinavian countries are an example, Canada even fits further into this than the US). What sets these countries to being moderately succesful without revolution like below is a set of legal requirements for elected politicians to prevent the authoritarian abuses, with a codified set of rules that must be adhered to in order to amend those rules, plus a robust judiciary and external actors to keep the politicians in check and prevent them from amassing political power.

    Where countries, like venezuela fail is the lack of codification of such, and the inability to properly ensure that there are checks and balances into power. Capitalistic societies in the past that don't also have these forces to limit powers have also ran into problems. Heck, the entire Roman Republic into Roman Empire was a failure of capitalistic society that fell into an authoritarian empire because it allowed power to be handed over (in return of populism).

    The best systems are ones that aren't "polar" in thinking. There's no magic bullet, one solution solves all. The best, most robust systems of economic policy in countries tends to be a hybrid approach, where the bulk of the countries economy is capitalistic, but certain essential services and necessary infrastructure is provided in socialistic practices. Saying that ALL and ANY socialistic programs is socialism and therefore leads to Authoritarianism is extremely incorrect.
     
  20. Chew Toy McCoy, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019

    Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #21

    I think it's safe to say you are getting all your facts from a correspondent who never leaves their desk and reports what the CIA tells them to.
     
  21. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #22
    Look at Venezuela...we should be fearful that we have youth in this country who praise socialism, and so many people who ignore what it does to a country. Thanks to our educational systems brainwashing of a generation. You can call it "fear mongering", but I am very afraid that in my lifetime we will end up like Venezuela. I sure hope we are "Fear Mongering" here as "democratic" socialism is very scary, and we should be very afraid. But we are the U.S. we will do it better :rolleyes:.
     
  22. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    I don’t think the majority of Americans would be so stupid to swing that far left for any significant amount of time.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #24
    It’s amazing how scared we’re supposed to be about Trump being CIC, but a regime change coup is carried out in broad daylight under his administration and Americans can’t see it. I’d say that’s a great way to see that the MSM (corporately owned) is and always has been a *part* of our foreign policy.

    Next up, exposing the IMF and World Bank for the soft power instruments they’ve always been. It’s in the damn army field manual for christ’s sake.
     
  24. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #25
    I've read FM 7-8 more than once and I don't remember anything about the IMF in it ;)
     

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