Very Upset With New Powermac

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
I just bought a new Dual 1 Ghz Powermac. Everything is very very fast, the only problem I have, is that I have kernel panics all the time. I would conservatively estimate that I have had about 20 panics over the last 2 weeks. I doubt that this is normal. It seems to have to do with waking up from sleep. I have disconnected all USB devices (except soundssticks & iSub), disconnected from my network in the house, and even reinstalled the OS. I am all out of ideas
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,859
57
Have you repaired permissions, run Disk First Aid, and run fsck -y?

Have you zapped the PRAM, and reset-nvram?

Do you run shareware and/or any System modification programs?
 

Chaszmyr

macrumors 601
Aug 9, 2002
4,266
76
just for my information, whats a kernal panic?

(I think the fact that i dont know means i probably have never gotten one)
 

tinycake

macrumors newbie
Jan 2, 2003
1
0
The only time I have seen similar problems is from bad memory -- if you added your own memory, try taking it out.

Also, try opening a bunch of applications -- if it is memory, you should be able to re-create the kernel panic.

I have not seen any utilities that would find the bad memory, I just located it through trial and error.

If it is memory, be sure to run disk utilities after you get rid of the offending memory. All of those kernel panics can be tough on your hard drive.

Hope this helps
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,794
2,228
Re: Very Upset With New Powermac

Did you add any RAM? Most of the recurrent kernel panic problems are a hardware problem. Usually faulty RAM. Pull any 3rd party RAM and try running it without.

arn
 

e-coli

macrumors 68000
Jul 27, 2002
1,849
826
Originally posted by Sun Baked
Have you repaired permissions, run Disk First Aid, and run fsck -y?
no need to run fsck any more. jaguar does it automatically if the computer hasn't been shut down properly.
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
37,912
4,149
Los Angeles
Freg3000, your problem is not normal. There is something wrong and it can be identified and corrected. Have you asked for service or help where you bought it?

Chaszmyr asked what a kernel panic is. If you'll forgive me for being long winded, I'll give you some background:

When you use Mac OS X, there are really four layers of software:

1. The top level: your applications.

2. Mac OS X. A graphical operating system that manages resources and the environment for your applications, e.g., cursor movement, screen drawing, alias resolution, icons, etc.

3. Darwin. A non-graphical Unix operating system, which manages lower-level resources, such as file security, virtual memory, etc.

4. The bottom level: the kernel, the critical portion of Unix that handles the vitally critical parts of Darwin. The (wise) idea in the design of Unix is that the smallest set of critical tasks be put in a relatively small "kernel of code" that can be heavily tested, fine-tuned, and protected from mistakes outside the kernel. The bulk of Unix code can then live outside the kernel, where errors in code might cause a given process or program to hiccup, but won't stop the machine and its operating system from continuing to run.

A kernel panic is an error in the kernel from which Unix can't recover. In theory, it can't be caused by your applications, by Mac OS, or by the rest of Darwin. In fact, it shouldn't happen at all since the kernel is a pretty thoroughly tested piece of code. But all code has bugs, so theory isn't quite the same as reality. Bad software at higher levels can in some cases cause kernel panics, so you can't rule it out completely.

But clearly, hardware errors such as bad RAM can reak havoc on the kernel, no matter how well the code is written and how much it is tested. So hardware trouble is the first place to look when you have frequent kernel panics.

Now I'll shut up and let people suggest diagnostic steps.
 

backspinner

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2002
547
0
Eindhoven
I had kernel panics on three occasions:
- bad ram
- old version of VirtualPC installed (not suitable for os x 10.2)
- occasionally (which is even more frustrating) on a brand new machine running 10.2.2

The solution: remove the third party memory, install the latest VirtualPC, and upgrade to 10.2.3 .
 

jeremy.king

macrumors 603
Jul 23, 2002
5,479
1
Fuquay Varina, NC
Very peculiar

I question the hardware route many of you are going, but you never really know.

I have been seeing the same problem with my relatively new dual 867. It _started_happening_ since upgrading to 10.2.2 and 10.2.3.

Of course my setup is complicated with my own RAM upgrade and numerous USB devices.

HOWEVER, Mine also sees these related to waking up from sleeping.

Call it random, but I think there is something with the newest version of Jaguar.

Please note that I haven't tried contacting Apple regarding this as I would think they would dismuss it as a hardware conflict.

Is anyone else seeing this on the newer powermacs?
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
I am very thankful for everyone's help. Here are the answers to some of the qustions.
I am running 10.2.3.
I have run Disk First Aid many times-everything checks out.
I got a free 512 MB RAM chip when purchasing the computer. (It's in slot 3 btw, with slot two open and slot 1 with the Apple RAM)
I have Virtual PC 6.
I have not zapped the PRAM, and don't know how to.

Does anyone think it can be a problem with the RAM being in slot 3?
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
I ran the normal hardware test, not the quick test, and everything passed (except the AirPort Card because I don't have one installed). Even the RAM passed. I was kinda hoping that it would be a RAM issue, because then I'd know what is wrong. Does this mean is has to be a software problem and is definetly not a hardware problem?
 

Billicus

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2002
980
2
Charles City, Iowa
Try putting the Ram in slot 2 and trying to run the PM. If that still causes a kernel (sp?) panic, then try removing the 256 and 512 modules one at a time and rebooting. It may be one or the other even though they passed the test. If it's not those, make sure you have the latest firmware installed, and make sure it isn't any of your hard drives (right thread I think).
 

arn

macrumors god
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,794
2,228
Originally posted by Freg3000
I am very thankful for everyone's help. Here are the answers to some of the qustions.
I am running 10.2.3.
I have run Disk First Aid many times-everything checks out.
I got a free 512 MB RAM chip when purchasing the computer. (It's in slot 3 btw, with slot two open and slot 1 with the Apple RAM)
I have Virtual PC 6.
I have not zapped the PRAM, and don't know how to.

Does anyone think it can be a problem with the RAM being in slot 3?
Even if it passes the hardware test.... I'm going to say... it's definately the RAM. Like I said... pull the 512MB stick and try to run it like that for a while.... if your problems go away... then that's the problem.

I've had bad RAM cause problems that would still pass the hardware test.

arn
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
37,912
4,149
Los Angeles
The kernel wouldn't panic but we Mac users tend to panic when our RAM is gone. Two years ago, a school I volunteered at left a Power Mac G3 in a classroom over the summer and came back to find it seemingly untouched but nonbooting. Turns out somebody popped open the side with the convenient handle and removed all the RAM. We bought new RAM and a padlock!
 

FattyMembrane

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2002
966
154
bat country
freg3000: the only kernel panic i've ever had was due to a program accessing functions from the poorly written ati drivers that were installed on my system. do kernel panics still show the commandline output to the screen (the only one i had was in 10.0.3)? if they do, this is often an indication of the problem (a polaroid camera is often useful for keeping a log of exactly what the panics said). i would suggest searching for any firmware updates that have been released for your machine (if any) like ones for the optical drives. most kernel panics are somehow tied to a firmware/hardware/driver issue so make sure that everything is up to date (although with such a new machine, everything is probably up to date).
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
According to the Apple System Profile, I have version 4.4.8f2 for my firmware. I'll pull the 512 stick tomorrow, and see what that's like.

To FattyMembrane-I believe that starting in Jaguar, Apple got rid of showing the command outline on the screen. Now they have it with a message stating you need to restart you're computer in about 5 different languages. It looks a lot better. I wish I didn't have to see it at all. :(

I just really want to thank everyone for their help. The MacRumors' Members are by far the best and most helpful. I'll try to keep you all updated. Thanks again.
 
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